History of Gang Mills -- From Then to Now

Matt Langworthy wrote:

scharnhorst wrote:We also got to think that that at any time Finger Lakes and Norfolk Southern could always win back the coal contract from the coal plant in Solvay, NY taking that train away from CSX if that were to happen NS would have to make room for that train as well down in Gang Mills.

I guess it would depend on how the coal was shipped. Could Suzie-Q get access to the plant?

Yes they can. In Conrail Days when the coal trains were delivered to Solvay they had to back off Track 2 and on to the yard lead to get to the power plant. When CSX took over a new section of track was installed connecting the NYS&W Line directly the Yard lead so that the coal drags could go up the NYS&W and then back into Solvay Yard with out blocking track 2. In any case tho it requires NYS&W or FGLK to contact the CSX Dispatcher to still make moves when interchanging cars which I have seen FGLK trains go up to Geddes street yard to drop off 1 or 2 cars on occation.

scharnhorst wrote:

Matt Langworthy wrote:

scharnhorst wrote:We also got to think that that at any time Finger Lakes and Norfolk Southern could always win back the coal contract from the coal plant in Solvay, NY taking that train away from CSX if that were to happen NS would have to make room for that train as well down in Gang Mills.

I guess it would depend on how the coal was shipped. Could Suzie-Q get access to the plant?

Yes they can. In Conrail Days when the coal trains were delivered to Solvay they had to back off Track 2 and on to the yard lead to get to the power plant. When CSX took over a new section of track was installed connecting the NYS&W Line directly the Yard lead so that the coal drags could go up the NYS&W and then back into Solvay Yard with out blocking track 2. In any case tho it requires NYS&W or FGLK to contact the CSX Dispatcher to still make moves when interchanging cars which I have seen FGLK trains go up to Geddes street yard to drop off 1 or 2 cars on occation.

Interesting. Just thinking out loud here (go ahead, insert joke) but I'm wondering if NS would choose instead to hand off the coal to NYSW at Binghamton. This would allow them to bypass the congestion at Gang Mills and[/i} get an additional... albeit small... chunk of the revenue by shipping the coal to Solvay on a subsidiary line.

[/quote]Interesting. Just thinking out loud here (go ahead, insert joke) but I'm wondering if NS would choose instead to hand off the coal to NYSW at Binghamton. This would allow them to bypass the congestion at Gang Mills and[/i} get an additional... albeit small... chunk of the revenue by shipping the coal to Solvay on a subsidiary line.[/quote]


one problem NYS&W would have to go on to CSX and run around the train on the controlled siding behind the NYS Fairgrounds. The Solvay Yard is 2 different yards side by side one is CSX/FGLK the other is owned and switched by the power plant.

scharnhorst wrote:

Interesting. Just thinking out loud here (go ahead, insert joke) but I'm wondering if NS would choose instead to hand off the coal to NYSW at Binghamton. This would allow them to bypass the congestion at Gang Mills and[/i} get an additional... albeit small... chunk of the revenue by shipping the coal to Solvay on a subsidiary line.[/quote]


one problem NYS&W would have to go on to CSX and run around the train on the controlled siding behind the NYS Fairgrounds. The Solvay Yard is 2 different yards side by side one is CSX/FGLK the other is owned and switched by the power plant.[/quote]


not necessary they could bring extra powers. they cut extra powers off at armory. Extra can tie onto the rear at armory and push the coal into solvay plant. They have to have more powers for the hills between binghamton and syr anyway.

Interesting hypothetical. Assuming the drags came up the WNYP, there would be a crew change somewhere west of Binghamton. If that turned out to be Gang Mills, would the NYSW scenario be any better than sending the drag up the Secondary to FGLK at Geneva?

I'm also thinking that NS (beancounters, at least) would be more inclined to use the Secondary given the recent MOW investments and perhaps, a desire to maintain a good working relationship with FGLK on interchange traffic.

BTW, when does the Solvay job next come up for bid and from where does its coal currently originate? Is the source of the coal also put out for bid? Thanks.

Poppyl

poppyl wrote:Interesting hypothetical. Assuming the drags came up the WNYP, there would be a crew change somewhere west of Binghamton. If that turned out to be Gang Mills, would the NYSW scenario be any better than sending the drag up the Secondary to FGLK at Geneva?

I'm also thinking that NS (beancounters, at least) would be more inclined to use the Secondary given the recent MOW investments and perhaps, a desire to maintain a good working relationship with FGLK on interchange traffic.

BTW, when does the Solvay job next come up for bid and from where does its coal currently originate? Is the source of the coal also put out for bid? Thanks.

Poppyl

After 1999 split of Conrail all CSX coal trains come from these mines
Newell, PA
Russell, KY
Handley, WV
Coal Run, KY
Peach Creek, WV
Danville, WV
Damron Fork, KY

Before 1999 split up of Conrail these are the locations that the coal for Solvay was coming from
Elk Run Jct, WV
Bailey Mine, PA
Blacksville-2 Mine, WV
Emerald Mine, PA
Fola, WV
Shelby, KY
Scotts Branch, KY
Holden-22 Mine, WV
Wells Prep, WV
Damron Fork. KY

The Power plant dose put there service contract up for bid this is how FGLK ended up moving Norfolk Southern coal drags for almost a year to Solvay because the mines that the Conrail trains were originating on fell under NS Control. Even under Conrail days it was not uncommon to see full dress NS locomotives or CSX Trains going into the power plant as Conrail, NS and CSX all fought for the coal contract for the Solvay power plant. At current date CSX now has the contract but NS could nab it next if they happen to have a better price.

Thanks for the information. Very interesting, particularly where the coal originated. I guess that time will tell as to whether the job shifts to NS.

Poppyl

I remember that gang mills was a crew change point for buoi/oibu,alcg,cgal, and the 3? coal trains,(ithica,dresden and J-city), I was living in a boarding house at the time and one of my roomies worked conrail as an extra con/brakeman--he came from ohio to work an surge in traffic . he would get called for the ihica coal (unl?) work fron 9pm-9am the union had a beef w/conrail cause they were x el guys, he then got calls for the bath train(wacg 30?) or buoi he worked here for 3-4 months and went back to ohio

If NS got the coal back it would likely go the same way it did last time, via Finger Lakes.

However, if for some reason they did send the trains NYS&W, the NYS&W has trackage rights all the way to CP-296 - in fact the siding is frequently used for storage of cars for the NYS&W these days - running around a train there would be no problem. Before anybody says no, I and about a half dozen other guys have photographic proof of Susquehanna power out at CP-296 taken off the Airport Road bridge.

Conrail's process to yard these trains was always to go up the Geddes St. Lead and back it into the Flint yard until at one point they derailed a couple of cars down deep in behind the switch to General Chemical, and part of the track was never fixed. All of that track was in pretty terrible shape anyways.

It is true that under Conrail both CSX and NS power could appear depending on where the train originated. NS units even led occasionally, even though it was a union rule they weren't supposed to because of differences in crew amenities on NS power (primarily the plastic bag toilets IIRC).

lvrr325 wrote:If NS got the coal back it would likely go the same way it did last time, via Finger Lakes.

However, if for some reason they did send the trains NYS&W, the NYS&W has trackage rights all the way to CP-296 - in fact the siding is frequently used for storage of cars for the NYS&W these days - running around a train there would be no problem. Before anybody says no, I and about a half dozen other guys have photographic proof of Susquehanna power out at CP-296 taken off the Airport Road bridge.

Conrail's process to yard these trains was always to go up the Geddes St. Lead and back it into the Flint yard until at one point they derailed a couple of cars down deep in behind the switch to General Chemical, and part of the track was never fixed. All of that track was in pretty terrible shape anyways.

It is true that under Conrail both CSX and NS power could appear depending on where the train originated. NS units even led occasionally, even though it was a union rule they weren't supposed to because of differences in crew amenities on NS power (primarily the plastic bag toilets IIRC).

Your right I forgot about NYSW having access all the way up into CP-296 and into DeWitt Yard forgot about that its been a while sent's I had seen them going up there. CSX also dumped a few coal cars behind General Chemical a few years back want to say it was 2005 or 2006 It happened 5 days before that massive Coal train derailment in the Newark, NY area.

correct me if I'm wrong here but didn't Conrail still own the Geddes Street lead all the way down to Jamesville or did they sell that to NYS&W in 1999?

What was the Amtrak train that ran through Gang Mills/Riverside/Corning?

Glass City Limited

Interesting to me thread, wonder if we could bring it back to life a bit. Some of the "players" remain and some of the traffic changed. Seems like Gang Mills is still a part of the NS equation now in 2023. As far as coal to Solvey, NYSW never did, Still trash from New Jersey & Suite Kote in Cortland a focus on the northern division. I think, but not certain, traffic from Sayre ends up in Gang Mills then is taken to Binghamton so that dynamic seems to remain. The Ithaca RR ( Formally a NS line ) from the Salt mine in Lansing leaves its cars in Sayre, I've seen them head west and back east again to Binghamton where I believe they end up heading North on the old D&H line . Interesting stuff. I would like to know what "trains" go either thru there to Binghamton or from there to Binghamton. JUST a novice trying to learn the history of our local railroads around here.

Late Conrail operations on the Lehigh Line went from a CGAL/ALCG through train Gang Mills to Allentown, to two locals which served the same purpose and dropped Ithaca traffic at Sayre. I forget if they ran to Mehoopany and met, or Coxton. Coal trains to Ludlowville came in, recrewed and ran direct. I rode one in 1994 or so. They also had alternating locals out of Elmira and Gang Mills, and the non-coal Ithaca traffic was handled by a local based in Ithaca. Probably not much different than now save it's a different railroad.

A local from Gang Mills also went as far as Himrod Jct. to hand cars off to the local based there. I've forgotten what they did between the 1995 Finger Lakes start and the Conrail split. The Corning Secondary was out of service between Geneva and Himrod Jct. for several years. That photo I use is the Himrod Jct local, just below the yard, taken Sept 1992.

And a local also went to Wellsboro until that was sold to North Shore to be the Wellsboro & Corning (they eventually sold to others).

Solvay steam plant has been shut down for over a decade.

NS has a handful of trains running Buffalo-Binghamton, some then go via the former DL&W to Scranton and IIRC the former LV/CNJ to Allentown, some go up the former D&H, a small amount of traffic goes to the NYS&W and on the former Erie route.