• Help identify this NYC station

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

  by NYCUticaSyracuse81
 
Thought that it was the NYC/West Shore Station at Wampsville, NY when I bid on this RPPC, but now I'm not so sure. Certainly looks like it was built by The New York Central.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected] ... ed-public/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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  by CPSmith
 
cleaned up a little ... hope this helps
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  by NYCUticaSyracuse81
 
Much clearer! Thank you. Well, I thought it could be Mexico, NY, but the windows are too low. Doesn't appear to be Stittville either. It definitely fits the mold of early 20th century NYC branchline stations. But, it may also very well be just as it's labeled, which is the Wampsville NYC station on the West Shore. The book only has a cropped photograph from the opposite side of the above picture showing an electrified third rail, and track of what appears to be a similar looking station at Wampsville. According to Taibi's Oneida Railway Company book, there was a West Shore shelter, which was moved several times, then replaced by a NYC Shelter that was moved for W.S. use, perhaps when they built the above station? The book states that the NYC main abandoned passenger service at Wampsville in 1920. Perhaps this is the final NYC station, and was possibly moved for the Oneida Railway Company after 1920? I can't see any tracks in the photo either.
  by lvrr325
 
Original NYC main and the West Shore were only maybe 30 yards apart through Wampsville, would there really have been a need for separate stations there?
  by NYCUticaSyracuse81
 
Wampsville had at least three stations. I get really confused because they were moved several times. The West Shore/Oneida Railway Co. Had a shelter on the south side of the go buggy line, which was moved several times then replaced by the NYC shelter. There was also a wood station built by the NYC, and used by the Oneida Railway Co. It is on page 50 of Tabai's Oneida Railway book. I don't think the above is the Wampsville station as I noticed some discrepancies between the two. Now Im really interested in identifying this station
  by jurtz
 
NYCUticaSyracuse81 wrote:I just got the new West Shore book. Could this be the South Utica station?
What is this new West Shore book to which you refer?
  by NYCUticaSyracuse81
 
nydepot wrote:It does not resemble a WS station. A later NYC replacement maybe?

Considering the WS was third rail here maybe it was just this depot?

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The West Shore station at South Utica was clearly built by the NYC, as it's completely unlike the Queen Anne style commonly seen in every original West Shore station. It probably had an original that likely burned or something prior to the one photographed in the new W.S. book? This looks very similar to the one in the above postcard, which is hand written on the back as being the West Shore Line at Wampsville, NY. Wampsville apparently had a shelter built by the Oneida Railroad Company Go Buggy Line, moved several times, then a shelter which was a hand me down from the NYC for the Shore/Oneida Railway Co., and at some point a wood structure similar to the one above for the West Shore/Oneida Railway Company. Confusing since the West Shore was electrified for only 23 years, and passenger service ceased between Utica and Syracuse on the Shore after the 1930 abandonment of The Oneida Railway Company. However the picture of the latter supposedly pictured in Taibi's Oneida Railway book is cropped, and taken from a different angle, and as I recall the windows on the end are different than the above. And it's not Mexico, Stittville, or Red Creek. Those are the only elongated NYC stations I'm aware of built in this commonly seen design. Many others built were identical, but not elongated. Then I finally saw a photo of the West Shore's S. Utica passenger station, and got me thinking that the one above may have been misidentified?
  by WShore4Ever
 
I did a little digging and located an Annual Report of the Board of Railroad Commissioners of the State of New York for 1906 Vol 1, pg. 124-125 that sheds some light on this thread. Prior to 1906 the West Shore passenger station in Utica was located on Hammond St., near South St., in what today is known as "East" Utica. This put it near the end of the South St. trolley line. There was no station on Genesee St. in what today is known as "South" Utica. Clearly an either/or situation. The Genesee St. location put the new station at the end of the dedicated ROW for the electrified section of the West Shore between Utica and Syracuse and this is indicated as part of the justification for the move. Most likely, the design would follow contemporary NYC practice rather than the 1883 NYWS&BRy style. If this is indeed the WS station, the lack of an agent window in the subject photo suggests the view is to the west, with the track on the back side of the structure as photographed.
1906 NYS RR Commission Report.jpg
From the 1917 NYC Valuation Maps the Genesee St. Station was 70-8 x 22-5 in size.
S. Utica WSRR Map.jpg
- WestShore4Ever
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  by NYCUticaSyracuse81
 
WShore4Ever wrote:I did a little digging and located an Annual Report of the Board of Railroad Commissioners of the State of New York for 1906 Vol 1, pg. 124-125 that sheds some light on this thread. Prior to 1906 the West Shore passenger station in Utica was located on Hammond St., near South St., in what today is known as "East" Utica. This put it near the end of the South St. trolley line. There was no station on Genesee St. in what today is known as "South" Utica. Clearly an either/or situation. The Genesee St. location put the new station at the end of the dedicated ROW for the electrified section of the West Shore between Utica and Syracuse and this is indicated as part of the justification for the move. Most likely, the design would follow contemporary NYC practice rather than the 1883 NYWS&BRy style. If this is indeed the WS station, the lack of an agent window in the subject photo suggests the view is to the west, with the track on the back side of the structure as photographed.
1906 NYS RR Commission Report.jpg
From the 1917 NYC Valuation Maps the Genesee St. Station was 70-8 x 22-5 in size.
S. Utica WSRR Map.jpg
- WestShore4Ever
Wow! Thanks for all the digging!! Perhaps the new station was built for the 1907 electrification? I just bought a postcard of what took me a while to identify as the NYC station at Red Creek. There are only a finite number of stations this could be, as the NYC didn't build many of these elongated type structures. It's hard to make comparisons as most know photographs are front shots. Thanks again. I just received a real photograph in the mail of the West Shore crossing the NYC mainline near Weedsport. Click my Flick link below...should be the first photo for now.
  by WShore4Ever
 
I was recently able to view NYC Valuation Survey photos (negatives) at the Smithsonian Institution, National Museum of American History, donated in 1986 by the Grand Trunk Western Railroad Company, relevant to this topic. In 2018, J. D'Addario and V. Broussard Simmons authored an index/guide to the collection, https://sirismm.si.edu/EADpdfs/NMAH.AC.1072.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The negatives are available for viewing on-site in Washington, D.C., by appointment. They are labeled in most cases only by a survey station reference, e.g., Box 23, Valuation Survey 119, 1005 + 250. Fortunately, they can be cross-referenced to survey station numbers on the corresponding valuation maps, which I had previously ordered on CD (http://www.nmro.org/nmro2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), to determine exactly where the photo was taken.

Two of these images are labeled as being taken at survey stations 1224+420 and 1224+524. The latter image location is specifically annotated on the survey map image I posted earlier in this thread as the Genesee St. passenger station. The former image shows a station-like building similar in footprint to the structure located behind the passenger station on the survey map and identified there as Asst. Supt. Office. The location of this second structure on the map matches a 1224+420 index. I wonder if it had previously been the passenger station at that location on the West Shore, to then be replaced by the larger structure in question after the electric line to Syracuse opened, and then was re-purposed as an office?

1224+524 West Shore RR Genesee St. Utica Passenger Station 1919
1224.524 Passenger Sta Genesee St. Utica.png
1224+430 Asst. Supt. Office 1919 (older passenger station?)
1224.430 Asst. Supt. Office (Old Passenger Sta) Genesee St. Utica.png
I also ran across on the Internet an aerial photo of this location taken in the 1950s, don't remember the on-line source.
Aerial Photo by Orville Spooner
South Utica Passenger Station Picture by Orville Spooner.png
The valuation survey negatives are roughly 3” x 6” and are in individual envelopes and, as with any archival center, can only be handled with special gloves. I was able to photograph them on a light table, but was only allowed to bring in a laptop or iPad, no paper or writing tools, but pad and pencil were provided for note taking. The images are mostly of stations, section houses, water towers and other buildings owned by the RR. All told, I came home with about 120 distinct iPad images taken between South Bethlehem and Oneida Castle. I will try to post some of the more unique shots in the near future.

- WShore4Ever
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  by D Alex
 
Looks almost exactly like an old station off Rt. 31 between Lockport and Middleport.