Hampton Roads/Norfolk/Newport News NE Regional Service

on Tuesday, the Virginia Department of Rail and Public Transportation will unveil revised plans for Chesterfield County railroad crossings.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/state ... 32db1.html

The portion of track from Main Street Station in Richmond south to Collier Yard in Petersburg is estimated to cost $469 million.

Not likely to get funded anytime soon, but it will benefit service to both Norfolk and Charlotte.

jstolberg wrote: http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/state ... 32db1.html

The portion of track from Main Street Station in Richmond south to Collier Yard in Petersburg
is estimated to cost $469 million.

Not likely to get funded anytime soon, but it will benefit service to both Norfolk and Charlotte.

Wouldn't upgrading the stretch thru Richmond and Petersburg also benefit the Florida Services, Silver Star
and Silver Meteor, as well as the Palmetto that currently only goes to Savannah?

The funding will stand or fall on the SEHSR benefits of fast and frequent trains DC-Richmond-Raleigh-Charlotte.
But long distance trains usually benefit from upgrades to corridor service.

And I'm glad to think that the new Norfolk service (possibly growing to three times a week, say reports)
will help to justify the investment.

Woody wrote:Wouldn't upgrading the stretch thru Richmond and Petersburg also benefit the Florida Services, Silver Star
and Silver Meteor, as well as the Palmetto that currently only goes to Savannah?

Yes, the eventual plan is for everything except the AT to operate on the Bellewood subdivision.

Why do they want to send trains via the Bellwood? It's about 1-2 miles longer than the Bypass and contains significantly less tangent track. Sounds like trains would lose time with that move, especially with the extra Main Street stop.

Jersey_Mike wrote:Why do they want to send trains via the Bellwood? It's about 1-2 miles longer than the Bypass and contains significantly less tangent track. Sounds like trains would lose time with that move, especially with the extra Main Street stop.

Because the people are at Main Street Station, not Staples Mill Station. Also, it might be as fast even with curves, if Amtrak won't need to wait for CSX.

^ I would probably make two-three additional rail trips per year to Richmond from Charlotte if trains from the South had a main street station stop. The Staples Mill station location makes it _really_ difficult for Richmond to be a rail destination.

(I do understand that "I am not everybody" but I doubt I am alone in my desire for a more central Richmond station -- I think the station is vital to the creation of the SEHSR corridor)

mtuandrew wrote:

Jersey_Mike wrote:Why do they want to send trains via the Bellwood? It's about 1-2 miles longer than the Bypass and contains significantly less tangent track. Sounds like trains would lose time with that move, especially with the extra Main Street stop.

Because the people are at Main Street Station, not Staples Mill Station. Also, it might be as fast even with curves, if Amtrak won't need to wait for CSX.

Both routes would move through the congested Acca Yard complex so I am not sure that this would eliminate any of the current bottlenecks. Are there projections on how many more LD riders would be added with a downtown stop? Also would NEC riders start using Flordia service trains to get to downtown Richmond displacing LD riders?

Jersey_Mike wrote: Both routes would move through the congested Acca Yard complex so I am not sure that this would eliminate any of the current bottlenecks.

Although not mentioned in the article linked by Mr. Stolberg, there will be some sort of bypass constructed at Acca to permit passenger trains to avoid the congestion there.

Bob Roberts wrote:^ I would probably make two-three additional rail trips per year to Richmond from Charlotte if trains from the South had a main street station stop. The Staples Mill station location makes it _really_ difficult for Richmond to be a rail destination.

(I do understand that "I am not everybody" but I doubt I am alone in my desire for a more central Richmond station -- I think the station is vital to the creation of the SEHSR corridor)

+1. I'll be taking a trip to Richmond later this month (down one day, back the next). I'll be staying within walking distance of Main St. Station. And 95, with a 5pm arrival at Main St., would work for going down. But returning north, I'd either have to take a cab up to Staples Mill (not cheap), or wait well into the evening at Main St. for 66 to arrive. I don't like either of those options. Hence, I'll probably drive. More trains at Main St. would certainly entice me to go back using Amtrak to get to Richmond.

Station Aficionado wrote:

Jersey_Mike wrote: Both routes would move through the congested Acca Yard complex so I am not sure that this would eliminate any of the current bottlenecks.

Although not mentioned in the article linked by Mr. Stolberg, there will be some sort of bypass constructed at Acca to permit passenger trains to avoid the congestion there.

I guess that would be in addition to the existing passenger train bypass track that avoids Acca Yard congestion. [img=http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/forums ... lleyes.gif[/img] I don't know, I've been riding 79 twice a year since 2009 and I've never had a problem with congestion at Acca yard and the northbound trains I pass on the RF&P are on or close to schedule. The Bellwood Sub route looks like a brown sandwich with a sinusoidal path, slow as nails steel bridge and longer distance. Might be fun to route the day trains and/or the Norfolk train along it, but I'd leave both Silvers on the bypass.

+1. I'll be taking a trip to Richmond later this month (down one day, back the next). I'll be staying within walking distance of Main St. Station. And 95, with a 5pm arrival at Main St., would work for going down. But returning north, I'd either have to take a cab up to Staples Mill (not cheap), or wait well into the evening at Main St. for 66 to arrive. I don't like either of those options. Hence, I'll probably drive. More trains at Main St. would certainly entice me to go back using Amtrak to get to Richmond.

The solution is to extend the Regional traffic to Main St instead of Staples Mill. LD trains should probably stick to the bypass. BTW what is currently under the train shed?

Jersey_Mike wrote: The solution is to extend the Regional traffic to Main St instead of Staples Mill. LD trains should probably stick to the bypass. BTW what is currently under the train shed?

That only solves the problem for Southbound folks, trains from both Norfolk and Raleigh / Charlotte will need Main St access too.

I may have overlooked the news posted on this forum, but people should be aware that funding for service extension to Roanoke and expansion to 3 daily trains to Norfolk is pretty much set. After a rather turbulent legislative session, the Virginia Senate and House passed a (very complicated) transportation funding bill to raise about an additional $900 million a year for transportation projects. Governor McDonnell's proposal, leading up to the bill, called for around $50 million a year in addition capital spending on passenger rail project as shown here. His proposal called for $102 million for Roanoke service extension to be spent by FY2017, $79 million for Norfolk service, and starting in FY2016, $35 million for NPN service upgrades, $47 million for DC to Richmond upgrades. These funds are in ADDITION to the amounts that Virginia has already allocated in the current Six year plan.

We will have to wait to see what the actual 6 year projection budget plan looks like when it is released in a couple of months, but the odds of service to Roanoke by 2016 or 2017 and capacity upgrades for CSX to allow for 3 daily trains to NFK in 3-4 years are now very good.

As for the route through Main Street Station and the $439 million projected cost, Virginia did spend $114 million for the train service to Norfolk. $439 million spread over 5-6 years is manageable. Once the Roanoke extension,the upgrades for 3 daily trains to NFK, and various other more modest track projects are done, VA may have $50 to $75 million a year to spend on Staples Mill to Main Street and restoration of service south from Main Street projects. Do the upgrades in pieces, after the HSIPR funded EIS studies are completed, starting with the slow Staples Mill to Main Street segment to speed up the NPN trains and after a few additional years, restore service to Main Street for the Norfolk and, yes, the Silvers, the Carolinian, Palmetto trains. The process could get sped up if there are federal grant programs for passenger rail to tap.

i would think the near time solution would be for Amtrak to provide a thruway shuttle bus from main street station to all trains at staple mills that do not serve main street .

afiggatt wrote:... Governor McDonnell's proposal ... called for around $50 million a year
in addition capital spending on passenger rail project as shown here.
... $102 million for Roanoke service extension to be spent by FY2017,
$79 million for Norfolk service,
and starting in FY2016, $35 million for [Newport News] service upgrades,
$47 million for DC to Richmond upgrades.
These funds are in ADDITION to the amounts that Virginia has already allocated
in the current Six year plan.

... the odds of service to Roanoke by 2016 or 2017 and capacity upgrades for CSX
to allow for 3 daily trains to NFK in 3-4 years are now very good.

As for the route through Main Street Station ... $439 million spread over 5-6 years
is manageable. Once ... other ... projects are done, VA may have $50 to $75 million
a year to spend on ... Main Street projects. Do the upgrades in pieces ... starting
with the slow Staples Mill to Main Street segment to speed up the NPN trains ...
after a few additional years, restore service to Main Street for the Norfolk and, yes,
the Silvers, the Carolinian, Palmetto trains.

The process could get sped up if there are federal grant programs for passenger rail to tap.

Thanks for this assessment. Spending megabillions on a megaproject
for the future, like California's HSR, always captures the media and
public attention. In the real world, $102 million to Roanoke, another
$79 million to Norfolk, $47 million D.C. to Richmond, hey, pretty soon
you've got something good in the here-and-now.

Nothing succeeds like success. As the network expands across the state,
it should pick up even more supporters in the legislature. The Lynchburger
was launched with a state guarantee, a potential subsidy cost in the budget.
Well, no subsidy required, so that freed up the allotted funds to backstop
the launch of the Norfolk train. The better that new service performs,
the quicker the "potential subsidy" can be reallocated to start additional
Norfolk trains and to extend service to Roanoke.

We could soon be seeing plans to extend that route down to Bristol. From
there it would threaten Knoxville and even Chattanooga with Thruway
connector buses -- and eventually with their own train service again!

Wonder why nobody seems to be talking about extending the Lynchburger,
or another run on this route, down to Danbury, Greensboro, and Charlotte?
The stretch Greensboro-Charlotte is getting doubletracked to cut a good
chunk, 15 or is it 30 minutes?, out of the schedule. Maybe North Carolina
doesn't want to compete with its own Carolinian. But it sure seems like
a morning departure out of Charlotte would pick up a lot of riders heading
to Danbury, Lynchburg, Charlottesville, and points north.

Meanwhile, when deciding which applications for funds are most deserving,
the feds want to look at calculations like, "The corridor is served by two trains
carrying a total of 500 passengers daily. The proposed upgrades will speed
their rides by 5 minutes each way, saving 2,500 minutes per trip, or 1,500,000
hours a year. Assuming a modest value for their time of $10 per hour, the faster
service will save these travelers more than $15 million a year." That calculation
gets much, much better when we can add a couple more trains, say to Norfolk,
to carry another 1,000 pax per day. That makes the value of saving 5 minutes
more like $45 million a year.

Fixing Main Street-Petersburg is costly, but the really big bucks will be needed
Richmond-D.C., including the new Potomac bridge. Growing passengers totals
build the political and the economic case for more trains, making it easier to
justify each additional investment to upgrade tracks, speed trains, and add
frequencies.

These successes are building a compelling case for more investment in more
trains and faster tracks all across Virginia -- and even deeper into the South.

Woody wrote: Wonder why nobody seems to be talking about extending the Lynchburger,
or another run on this route, down to Danbury, Greensboro, and Charlotte?
The stretch Greensboro-Charlotte is getting doubletracked to cut a good
chunk, 15 or is it 30 minutes?, out of the schedule. Maybe North Carolina
doesn't want to compete with its own Carolinian. But it sure seems like
a morning departure out of Charlotte would pick up a lot of riders heading
to Danbury, Lynchburg, Charlottesville, and points north.

We did discuss in the Lynchburg thread. Mr Station Aficionado and Mr Arlington discussed the pros and cons while I chimed in operations starting here