• Green/Orange Line suspended due to Haymarket garage collapse

  • Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.
Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: CRail, sery2831

  by STrRedWolf
 
Chatter from fellow transit fan Bostonians (via a Telegram channel I'm in) is that the Green Line tunnels are compromised, likely due to the collapse overhead.

If that's so, then I'm glad it's been caught early before a tunnel collapse.
  by dieciduej
 
I am not sure of the tunnels being compromised, but the one thing for sure is all that debris is still sitting on top of them. So I don't envision them restoring service until the debris is removed. Just the removal process may itself do damage. Overall I don't see it being a quick restore. The Orange Line was easy since the tunnel is to the left, looking southbound, of the garage.

Going thru Haymarket SB there is a slow order in place, so I was able to see thru some of the cross tunnel access points and didn't see any damage. If there is damage my guess it would be on the WB Green Line trackage, the headhouse and what would be the original Haymarket platform.
  by jwhite07
 
I just walked by there earlier this morning. Granted this was about 5:30AM, but there was zero activity around the site. Usually that's when workers start showing up. If those Green Line tunnels are indeed compromised as rumored, I wonder if they'll be able to do anything about it anytime soon, until site stabilization is confirmed and investigations are over upstairs.

As mentioned, the Orange Line is indeed running, but bypassing Haymarket. Oddly, the very busy 111 is still originating/terminating at the temporary bus stop on Surface Road, so I noted an unusual amount of pedestrian traffic headed to Government Center and State. Unsure why they couldn't have looped North/Congress/Court/Cambridge/Sudbury so they could serve both State and GC and save people the walk.
  by Disney Guy
 
Parts of the Green Line tunnel around Haymarket have the ceiling made up with steel girders dating back to 1897 or so. Some girders might have rusted considerably over the years, er, decades and might have bowed or bent a little under the weight of the falling garage pieces.

Imagine a new cut and cover job to replace bent or warped girders.

Trying to find a picture (I have seen before) of the new 1960ish vintage tunnel through City Hall Plaza bypassing Adams Sq., built up little by little with trains running through it before the tunnel walls and ceiling were finished.
  by TurningOfTheWheel
 
If they end up having to rebuild the tunnels between Gov and North, are we talking at least a year or two of continued diversions?
  by Disney Guy
 
I would guess that the maximum amount of tunnel that would need attention would be about half the length of a football field (150 feet).
  by troffey
 
Disney Guy wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:47 am To help reduce the overall MBTA deficit, the entity doing the garage project should have paid for the replacement buses during this shutdown.

It would also be desirable, if the unexpected more rapid collapse of the garage on Friday night damaged the subways, that the garage project fund the replacement of the roof leaking 100 plus year old damaged sections with new waterproofed sections.
T policy (from what I've been told) is that any diversion at the behest of an outside entity is paid for by the entity. So if the service diversion was for the construction project, the project paid for the busses.
  by STrRedWolf
 
Disney Guy wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:16 pm Parts of the Green Line tunnel around Haymarket have the ceiling made up with steel girders dating back to 1897 or so. Some girders might have rusted considerably over the years, er, decades and might have bowed or bent a little under the weight of the falling garage pieces.

Imagine a new cut and cover job to replace bent or warped girders.

Trying to find a picture (I have seen before) of the new 1960ish vintage tunnel through City Hall Plaza bypassing Adams Sq., built up little by little with trains running through it before the tunnel walls and ceiling were finished.
Hearing some rumblings from folks in Boston who are "close to the action" that your call of "girders needing replacing" is a good possibility -- many of them being damaged beyond repair.

Any odds on the construction company involved (Jacobs Engineering, who has a history of this) not having liability insurance?
  by STrRedWolf
 
troffey wrote: Mon Apr 04, 2022 7:50 am
Disney Guy wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 7:47 am To help reduce the overall MBTA deficit, the entity doing the garage project should have paid for the replacement buses during this shutdown.

It would also be desirable, if the unexpected more rapid collapse of the garage on Friday night damaged the subways, that the garage project fund the replacement of the roof leaking 100 plus year old damaged sections with new waterproofed sections.
T policy (from what I've been told) is that any diversion at the behest of an outside entity is paid for by the entity. So if the service diversion was for the construction project, the project paid for the busses.
Hearing they're not running buses since the official "diversion route is" "Transfer to Orange at North Station and Downtown Crossing."

Related... would the engineering company pay for repairs?
  by Trinnau
 
T policy is indeed to have the entity requiring the diversion pay for the cost of said diversion - typically the T is paying for their own work but there are several private party examples. There is always a rider in such an agreement to include covering the T in the case of work not being completed by the end of the allotted time, such as in this case. So legally, the entity is bound to it.

I have a feeling that no buses are currently running due to the T's lack of extra bus drivers coupled with ridership still not fully recovered. The Orange Line is an acceptable alternative between these points, and it allows the T to protect the rest of their network despite the issue coming from an outside influence.
  by BandA
 
Wouldn't be surprised if something like this stretches the insurance limits of the contractor. Is the MBTA an owner of the garage? I had assumed it was owned by the city and had been sold off, that this demolition thing was a private sector project.