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  • Green Mountain Railway - Passenger Excursions

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Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England

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 #779684  by Otto Vondrak
 
I don't know how I missed this. I read in the April 2010 Railfan & Railroad that VRS has discontinued the Green Mountain Flyer between Bellows Falls and Rutland. This train was usually pulled by the remaining RS-1 on the roster. How did this come about?

It goes on to say that VRS will run the "White Mountain Flyer" from White River Jct. to St. Johnsbury. But what will happen to the RS-1? And does this mean that the GMRC will be without passenger trains for the first time since... ever?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ottomatic77/2492484624
 #779704  by Noel Weaver
 
This came as a surprise to me too, they own the station at Bellows Falls and did a nice job restoring it too. I wonder if they
will keep their store in that building?
I suspect the reason might be the freight operation being delayed and/or disrupted by the passenger train and maybe the
economy as well, maybe their business was too low last year to justify continued operation.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the 405 up at White River Junction for the operation there, this engine today has roller
bearings so it would not be a big deal to move it up to the river.
Noel Weaver
 #779763  by Dick H
 
The GMRC 405 spent quite a lot of time at White River Jct.
last summer doing the honors on the White River Flyer. So,
I would expect it will be at WRJ again this year.

After the former CV engine house burned, the NECR moved
their yard office into the station in the area formerly used
by the museum there. At some point, the NECR moved the
yard office into the office area at the south end of the
station, where the GMRC had been selling tickets, etc.
They moved into the former museum area and when I was
there in the fall, they had a growing area devoted to the
sale of items formerly carried in the store at Bellows Falls.

I cannot find it at the moment, but I believe there was a
post on another list that there may still be some special
excursions on the GMRC to Chester, but not on a regular
basis for 2010.
 #779792  by jscola30
 
So I rememberd at the Amherst Railway Society show, I got the 2010 brochure for the Vermont Flyers. It does seem the Green Mountain Flyer will be getting a reduction. For the Green Mountain Flyer it says " Bellows Falls will be open on Fridays at 11am for groups or individual travel from May 7th through October 15th. Open for special and private charter events upon request.. There is also a Rutland Limited runned planned for October 9th. The Champlain Valley Flyer is also being reduced, this one to events only.
 #779829  by DutchRailnut
 
the ressesion has hit the tourist railroads hard, not enough riders to support the operations.
 #779830  by PAR381
 
Its no surprise to me that the VRS decided to end the Green Mountain Flyer ridership has been going down over thr past few years. Conway Scenics Notch Train took some of their business prior to that train running the " Green Mountain Flyer" wwas one of the best train rides in all of New England. Saying that, the ride between Bellows Falls and Chester has been going on since Steamtown started so maybe it was getting a little stale? The last time I was up there the brush along the tracks was pretty bad and some of the views have become obstructed with trees.

The VRS over the past few years tried to save it by running special trains for other Vermont events working with the Bellows Falls Chamber of Commerce but I guess that was not enough

One of the most costly things in running tourist trains is insurance if you do not have the ridership to pay the bills as they saying goes "the writing is on the wall"


I have been told the ridership in White River on some days was not all that great either so who knows how long that will last
 #779876  by TomNelligan
 
I love the passenger-friendly attitude of the VRS, but the excursion trains are unsubsidized and have to at least cover their operating costs. One Saturday last summer I rode the first Champlain Valley Flyer trip of the day out of Burlington and there were only 20-25 people on board. Given that the fares aren't that high, I don't think they made any money on that trip. Hopefully things will pick up when leisure travel in general recovers from the current economic mess.
 #780545  by Dick H
 
There was some recent "chatter" that the NECR wanted to buy
the VRS and vice-versa. IMO, the first thing the NECR would
do if it took over the VRS would be to exit the passenger
business. Once Fortress tool control of Rail America, one of
the first things they did was to kill the annual Santa train in
Palmer and Monson. If the GMRC 405 and the passenger fleet
was part of the purchase, they would have quickly been put on
the market for sale. I am not sure who actually owns the car
"McIntyre", it may owned by one of the principals of the VRS,
but I doubt the NECR would even retain that for OCS runs.
So, compliments to the VRS for continuing to run passenger
service and ride it while you can, cause you never know
what the future will bring..

Dick
 #780786  by Steam3713
 
Yes, the GREEN MOUNTAIN FLYER has been reduced to one regular train per week plus a handful of specials for the 2010 season. It's basically a situation of pure economics. Last year the GREEN MOUNTAIN FLYER operated only on days that bus tour groups were booked; without them, business had dwindled to almost nothing at times. VRS did offer to run trips for the local Chamber of Commerce and other interested parties this year, but that's unlikely to happen very often. I had a long chat with the folks at the Chamber a couple of months ago, and they understand the economics of the situation and do not fault VRS's decision to discontinue regular GREEN MOUNTAIN FLYER operations. VRS told the Chamber that a minimum of 100 fares were needed to break even for a roundtrip to Chester, and that VRS was having a hard time getting that many passengers even when a tour group was booked. At the moment, neither the Chamber nor any other local entity has money available to subsidize excursions out of Bellows Falls. The Chamber folks made it very clear that they'd like to promote some trips, but the only way that would be possible is if some "themed event" excursions could sell enough tickets in advance to pay for the operating costs. If any one has good ideas for some themed excursions, the Chamber would be willing to listen.

And, yes, conflict with freight operations was also a consideration--but not the deciding factor. Getting the FLYER through the yard at Riverside when both the DASW switcher and 263/264 were there together was a problem sometimes. But I do think it is interesting to note that VRS got the State of Vermont to reinstall the passing siding at Bartonsville a number of years back--supposedly to help accomodate a smooth interaction between excursion and freight operations; since then, the siding has been used more for freight car storage than the meeting of trains.

As far as subsidizing VRS passenger operations goes, it is true there has been no direct subsidies on trips sponsored by VRS itself. But it cannot be overlooked that the State of Vermont has used VRS excursion operations, the CHAMPLAIN commuter operation, and now AMTRAK to obtain many millions of dollars in Federal monies to fix up railroad tracks in Vermont. There has been a lot of Federal money that's gone into Vermont trackage because of a tie to passenger service!

The again deteriorating track condition on the Green Mountain Railroad hasn't helped the GREEN MOUNTAIN FLYER's cause, either. There have recently been numerous slow orders between Bellows Falls and Chester, and getting the FLYER over the road on its two hour schedule has become increasingly difficult. With the shifting of overhead freight traffic away from the GMRC, there's little incentive at the present time for major track rehabilitation. Interchange with Pan AM Southern now goes via Hoosick Jct., and once the new interchange between PAS and the New England Central is established at Millers Falls, MA--and existing contracts for VRS/NECR interchange expire--there won't likely be much overhead traffic off the Norfolk Southern moving via VRS any more. The GMRC may well be destined to become a 10 MPH freight line soon--much the way the Rutland to North Bennington trackage was for many years.