• Green Line Type 9 Thread

  • Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.
Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: CRail, sery2831

  by theMainer
 
Any word on if they will update the Announcements from the Text-To-Speech Lady?
  by theMainer
 
Nothing, its just that the Oglesby announcements are better in my opinion.

On another note, has anyone seen the Type 9's going down Huntington Avenue to Heath? I haven't seen a single one yet.
Last edited by CRail on Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total. Reason: Unnecessary quote removed.
  by Commuterrail1050
 
They have all tracked on all lines. I’ve seen it on the tracker multiple times. Most of them does the b and d branches, sometimes c.
  by theMainer
 
Could Street Running be a potential factor in this?
Last edited by CRail on Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total. Reason: Unnecessary quote removed. Do not use the "Quote" button as a "Reply" button.
  by diburning
 
The Type 9s currently can't run on the street running portion of the E branch because of the plug doors. There's nowhere to display the STATE LAW - STOP signs that are present on the folding doors of the Type 7s and Type 8s (that most motorists ignore anyway)
  by theMainer
 
That makes sense, thanks!
Last edited by CRail on Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total. Reason: Unnecessary quote removed. Do not use the "Quote" button as a "Reply" button.
  by jwhite07
 
Type 9s can't run on street trackage because they don't have anything to remind people IN THEIR FACE what the LAW in Massachusetts is? That is utterly and completely ridiculous.

Fine, put some warning stickers on the dashers of each car like Toronto does. Put a transit cop near some stop once in a while to enforce the law and ticket offenders - that would pay for itself. Heck, put a fold out Stop Sign on the side of the car like a freaking school bus has. But would the MBTA please just quit making excuses for not running streetcars past Brigham Circle for whatever asinine reason they can think of? It's snowing... there's a car accident... street paving... can't put red stickers on doors... I am so glad I no longer live on Mission Hill and have to attempt to rely on the Green Line. It was bad enough in the mid-90s when I did.
  by Arborwayfan
 
"eight feet" was the correct answer to one of the ten questions on my learner's permit exam in about 1990: "How far must a driver stop from the step of a stopped trolley?"

I think it's actually reasonable to choose to run foldout-door cars rather than plug-door cars on the street-running section (or to put on some other kind of fold-out device on the cars near the doors). I don't think it depends on whether drivers know the law. Here's why: The law, apparently written back in the age of little four-wheel trolley cars, refers to "the step" and "a stopped trolley". However, in practical terms what we want to happen today is for autos to stop a safe distance back from the path of a passenger going to or from the backmost open door of a trolley that is stopped to board and discharge passengers. Type 7s, 8s, and 9s all have three doors a side. Which door or doors do they open at the street stops? The front door only? All three? Does it vary? Do we want drivers to stop their cars behind the back of the trolley, behind the backmost door, or just behind the backmost open door? We definitely don't want drivers to stop their cars behind the back of the trolley when the trolley is just stopped at a light; that would be a silly waste of space on the road. It's a lot harder to tell when a plug door is open than when a foldout door is open. So give car drivers a break and make sure the trolley indicates exactly where and when they should stop. (And then, yes, send out transit cops to ticket people who drive on past when people are trying to get on and off the trolley.)

When the dug up Huntington Ave in about 1988 and replaced all the tracks, they should have moved the tracks into the outer lanes. That way cars could have gone around stopped trolleys on the two inner lanes, and passengers would not have had to cross a lane of traffic. I assume the T and the city were afraid that parked cars would block the trolleys, but somehow I think car owners would have learned very fast not to park too far from the curb. Or the stops could have had narrow center island platforms lines up with the existing walk lights. I always wanted trolleys all the way to Arborway (the whole time I was going to Boston Latin (86-92) I hoped that some day I'd be taking the trolley home instead of the bus), but it is actually true that that stretch on Huntington Ave is hell for street running. There's so much other traffic that the trolleys (and the buses) go really slowly, and it's such an important car route between Brookline Village and the LMA etc that it would be at least politically impossible to take half the traffic lanes and make a trolley or trolley-and-bus reservation). There's no really good place for actual platforms. If the whole route from Brigham Circle to Heath and beyond were like South Huntington, the whole street-running thing would be a lot simpler and more obvious. The city always talked about Centre Street being too narrow, but at least there getting on and off was safe.
  by jwhite07
 
To be fair, Arborwayfan, when I took Driver's Education through my high school, that nugget of knowledge was certainly not on the curriculum, since I was a resident of Ellsworth Maine at the time. And when I moved to Massachusetts to attend Northeastern University and traded that license in for a Massachusetts one, I don't recall any further testing required. Nonetheless I paid attention to the numerous signs along Huntington Avenue and used a bit of common sense to deduce you're not supposed to blow past a streetcar stopped with its doors open. I've been on both ends of the "argument", as a rider of the E line making that tentative step down and fearfully looking to the right around the edge of the door, and as a motorist on Huntington and South Huntington Avenues doing what I was supposed to do (and often getting angry honks and middle fingers from fellow motorists for my troubles). In Toronto, you're supposed to stop your vehicle at the rear quarter of the streetcar, and people do it, and it works well. Here, the law reads different, but the concept is very simple - use caution when driving alongside a streetcar, be mindful that when it stops the doors might open, and be prepared to stop short of any open door anywhere along the length of the train. That might be inconvenient to those who like to zoom up and down Huntington Avenue as if it's Route 9 somewhere out in western Massachusetts and and not Route 9 along a city street in Boston, but to me getting stuck driving alongside or behind a streetcar is about as too bad so sad as getting stuck behind a truck on a hill out there on 9 in the Berks. It's not ideal, but if you can't get yourself out from behind the situation without being dangerous, then too bad, just ride it out.

Anyway, back to the Type 9s, if the T doesn't want to run Type 9s on the E, IMO garbage reason or not, I suppose that's up to them. I guess on the plus side there's less chance for one to get damaged in an accident.
  by Arborwayfan
 
I like your idea of putting fold-out stop signs (even if you were kinda joking). :-D I agree: people should stop for the people to get on and off. I just figure that if we need grade crossing arms and traffic lights, the T also needs something that says "this trolley is now stopped for boarding, and people will be walking across your lane because we decided to put the tracks in the middle of a four-lane road." That or some kind of protected platform.

I also agree that the T should just run trolleys to Heath already, and ideally further.
  by bostontrainguy
 
Arborwayfan wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 6:43 pm I like your idea of putting fold-out stop signs (even if you were kinda joking). :-D
I've seen that used somewhere but I can't recall where. They had school bus stop signs with flashing red lights that flipped out when the doors opened.
jwhite07 wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 4:50 pm In Toronto, you're supposed to stop your vehicle at the rear quarter of the streetcar, and people do it, and it works well. Here, the law reads different . . .
That's because in Toronto they open all of the side doors. In Boston it's front door only.
  by rethcir
 
I saw that the T recently dig up the roadway and replaced the tracks. Shame they didn’t just take the center two lanes for the ROW while they were at it.
  by jwhite07
 
The two center lanes are the right of way, that's the alleged problem!

I know what you are thinking - put the tracks in a reservation with a single travel lane on each side. That doesn't solve the problem of idiots passing stopped streetcars on the right and endangering boarding and alighting passengers. And Huntington Avenue with a single travel lane or no parking lane are both non-starters.
  by rethcir
 
My next suggestion is cut-and-cover. I'm sure that's ridiculously expensive though.
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