• Green Line Collision 7/30/21

  • Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.
Discussion relating to commuter rail, light rail, and subway operations of the MBTA.

Moderators: sery2831, CRail

  by STrRedWolf
My friend up in Boston pointed me to some of the news... so some links:

WHDH 7 (independent?): https://whdh.com/news/at-least-23-peopl ... in-boston/
WCVB 5 ABC: https://www.wcvb.com/article/boston-mas ... e/37184328
WBZ 4 CBS: https://boston.cbslocal.com/2021/07/30/ ... in-boston/
WBTS 10 NBC: https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/ac ... n/2449662/

My first guess would be a Automatic Train Protection problem... but to my surprise, they don't have ATP on these trains. The Foxtrot?!? Even MTA Maryland has ATP (although I think it's not enabled when street running). It's 2021, MBTA's cars were rehabbed, why don't they have ATP!?!?

I'm incensed.

Mind me. Outsider chiming in. It just... no reason. And "no money" won't fly with me.

I'm going to layout a few predictions:
  • NTSB says this would be completely prevented if ATP were implemented.
I'm glad for no deaths and no serious injuries. 23 injured.
Last edited by CRail on Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:49 pm, edited 1 time in total. Reason: We do not speculate on personnel matters here.
  by johnpbarlow
From various news videos, it looks like Type 7 3705, trailing on the outbound pair that was rear ended, was damaged worse than the Type 8 that rammed into it.
  by jwhite07
From the links here and my own viewing of the various news reports, the first train had an unidentified Type 8 leading, with Type 7 3705 trailing. This train was struck from behind by a train consisting of Type 8 3894 leading and Type 7 3697 trailing. Although 3894's "face" seemed to have fared better than 3705's B end at the point of impact, it's clear there is some significant articulation damage to 3894 per the photos and videos of GM Poftak standing in front of the skewed center section of the car, and probably draft gear damage and who knows what else throughout both trains. Interestingly (not in a good way), there seems to be significant damage to the A end of 3894's trailer, 3697, which apparently ran into the back of 3894 when it struck 3705. Must have been a heckuva wallop - very glad no serious injuries occurred.

The MBTA, and the Green Line in particular, is clearly not allowed to have nice things.
  by R36 Combine Coach
Interesting to note 3894 is the highest numbered Type 8 (and among the last 10 assembled from leftover shells
in 2007, with 3895-3899 used as are spare shells). Will any of the shells be used now for wreck rebuild?
  by BandA
The Type 9's, how much are those, $7M each? Shame to lose any Type 7's as they are the better cars (idc if they aren't "handicapped accessible", at least they were reliable) Will they be totaling both the Type 7 (kinki) and the Type 8 (Breda)? That would make this an up to $14M crash, before depreciation.
  by STrRedWolf
rethcir wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:18 pm https://www.mbta.com/projects/green-lin ... ion-system
They're just starting to put in a form of ATP?!?!?

Yeah. NTSB is definitely going to razz MBTA for not having it in there since the turn of the century.

Other than that, it's what comes out of the drug tests.
  by Train60
Happy to see the NTSB Investigating this accident. They will have a lot to say about what happened, I'm sure.
  by wicked
Train60 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 7:43 pm Happy to see the NTSB Investigating this accident. They will have a lot to say about what happened, I'm sure.
What is the threshold for the NTSB to get involved? They've not been involved in some of the other T mishaps.

According to the below link, the rear trolley was going 30 mph when it smashed into the first. Is there such a thing as a throttle sticking on a trolley?

https://whdh.com/news/ntsb-green-line-t ... eed-limit/
  by danib62
Generally NTSB can choose to insert themselves in most accident investigations when they think it’s in the public interest but per the regs:
NTSB shall investigate… a railroad accident in which there is a fatality or substantial property damage, or that involves a passenger train.
  by WatertownCarBarn
Unsurprisingly, NETransit shows 3705 as damaged beyond repair and 3894 as out of service long term.