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  • Grafton & Upton Railroad (G&U) Discussion

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New England

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 #529775  by g-and-u-watcher
 
CVRA7 wrote:As reported earlier the right of way seems to have been clear cut for a good part of the distance south from Washington Mills toward Upton but brush remains heavy Upton to Hopedale and really thick Hopedale to Milford.
Some minor brush cutting has recently taken place in Hopedale along the main - one or two large trees have been removed and a bunch of saplings appeared to have been cut by hand.
Glad to hear that they're clearing the line that far down into Hopedale. (Now, if only they proceed into Milford. ;) ) I'd also seen that they had been clearing some of the brush in Upton on the Hopedale side of the West Upton yard. For example, the crossing by the Upton High School is now cleared of its previous heavy brush. I'm guessing that they'd clear that side of Upton only if they had intentions of heading at least into Hopedale.
CVRA7 wrote:Much of the Draper factory appears to have been recently torn down, with some of the perimeter buildings remaining for re-use, probably for residential and commercial purposes. I don't think there would likely be a rail freight need unless some new building took place on the rather large site. The large former lumber (Wickes?) warehouse remains vacant - it has one track that would need rebuilding if a rail freight oriented customer could be found.
These are interesting times along the G&U!
The following article in the Milford Daily News is on Hopedale's planning for the Draper site, and has a brief mention of the G&U:
http://www.milforddailynews.com/news/x28229104

In that article, it's mentioned that the planners had not until recently been aware that the G&U would be resuming activity. It sounded as if at least some of the planners would welcome an active railroad as a way of attracting business to the area.
 #529780  by slashmaster
 
CVRA7 wrote:The graffiti-covered CF7 (#2443?), stenciled G U, was in the interchange yard as of last Friday, along with the hopper cars. The 212 was busy switching from the south end of the string of hoppers. I haven't seen that many cars in the N Grafton yard in decades.
As reported earlier the right of way seems to have been clear cut for a good part of the distance south from Washington Mills toward Upton but brush remains heavy Upton to Hopedale and really thick Hopedale to Milford.
Some minor brush cutting has recently taken place in Hopedale along the main - one or two large trees have been removed and a bunch of saplings appeared to have been cut by hand. The enginehouse area looks to have been the recipient of a major clean-up effort with most of the old trailers that once jammed the area having been removed. A fairly modern looking back-hoe was parked next to the building. The shell of the old flanger remains. The 4-5 track yard that led to the Draper factory still disappears into the brush. Much of the Draper factory appears to have been recently torn down, with some of the perimeter buildings remaining for re-use, probably for residential and commercial purposes. I don't think there would likely be a rail freight need unless some new building took place on the rather large site. The large former lumber (Wickes?) warehouse remains vacant - it has one track that would need rebuilding if a rail freight oriented customer could be found.
These are interesting times along the G&U!
Yeah I saw it saturday at washington mills. And I think it's a lot more common than you think for the grafton yard to be full of cars, it is when they move salt, it has been full of csx equipment and in some of the recent pics in those photo albums it also has a lot of cars.

 #529781  by slashmaster
 
stvigi wrote:Can anyone tell me if the G&U does reactivate the line from Hopedale to Milford, who would pay for the installing new rails across Rt. 16? Would it be the G&U or the state? Also what types of gates/signals would they have to install? The old signals must date back to the 60's which are still on both sides of the road.

Steve
They wouldn't install gates or signals, it would just be a guy with a red flag. Crossing signals are only for a lot more use than you will see on the G & U anytime soon.
 #529904  by frrc
 
[DELETED]
Last edited by frrc on Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #529916  by slashmaster
 
frrc wrote:
slashmaster wrote:
stvigi wrote:Can anyone tell me if the G&U does reactivate the line from Hopedale to Milford, who would pay for the installing new rails across Rt. 16? Would it be the G&U or the state? Also what types of gates/signals would they have to install? The old signals must date back to the 60's which are still on both sides of the road.

Steve
They wouldn't install gates or signals, it would just be a guy with a red flag. Crossing signals are only for a lot more use than you will see on the G & U anytime soon.

If the NIMBY's have their way, there will be grade crossing signals, and no doubt a "no blowing of horns" ban put into effect also. Some people in Upton like the "quiet little" town scenario....
You could be right but then again there are no crossings on the G & U with working crossing gates or flashers right now. I think your right about the nimby's liking a quiet little town, the thing I'm trying to figure out is if they like the quiet little town so much why did they allow all those new houses to be built?

 #529936  by stvigi
 
I just can't see the use of a flagman on Rt. 16 unless they moved trains late at night or early mornings. I've been traveling to work each day via Rt. 16 since 1990 and would think that you would at a minimum have to have lights (They are there now) due to the amount of traffic. I would be more afraid of getting hit if I was the flag man!. Rt. 140 is almost as busy. Depot Street on the other hand, I could see the use of a flagman due to the lower flow of trafic. They use a flagman at the CSX crossing in Bellingham, but that road just doesn't have the traffic Rt. 16 or 140 does.

I have to agree, I just don't see what Upton is complaining about, it's more tax base for them!, and as for the people who purchase houses next to the track's wouldn't you check to see the railroads status before purchasing a home if it was a concern?

 #529984  by Jedijk88
 
I can't see them ever reactivating the line in Milford. Who's going to pay for the million dollar per mile rebuild of the track?

 #529990  by SkiScorcher88
 
Jedijk88 wrote:I can't see them ever reactivating the line in Milford. Who's going to pay for the million dollar per mile rebuild of the track?
To bring you up to speed really quick:

1) 1/2 of the line has been sold to a one Delli Priscoli
2) Brush clearing has been completed from Grafton through Upton
3) The G&U has bought at least one new engine, there will be traffic in the near future
4) They have "new" ties and will fix the railbeds
5) Why would they be clearing brush in Hopedale if the intent was not to use the interchange in Milford
6) The Mass Highway Dept legally has to pay for the rebuilding of the RR crossings it paved over 3 years ago

That pretty much sums up everything we've been talking about for the past month. Read previous posts and you'll find out more.

 #529997  by Jedijk88
 
Why would the railroad want to interchange in Milford? It doesn't make sense to me to reactivate all that track just to reach CSX in Milford when they already interchange with CSX in N. Grafton.

Reviving the line to Upton makes sense because it seems they have a customer lined up. The track was last in regular use in 1998-99 to serve the salt depot. The track was in pretty good shape up to that time.

Beyond Upton, south towards Hopedale and Milford, it will take big bucks to revive the line to handle regular trains with 286K or greater gross weight.
 #530000  by SkiScorcher88
 
The Milford end of the line strategically connects to the CSX Franklin line. Rather than having a short line that is a dead end and thus poorly conducive to business, the G&U is in a position to connect two main lines and transport goods from place to place. Trust me, the G&U is not reactivating just for the Upton customer. That would not nearly be worth the money currently being invested. As people have stated in the Bay Colony Yahoo Group, the new owner is a developer as well as an entrepreneur. They think that a newly renovated G&U line will attract customers. The line has a lot of potential, it just has to be tapped correctly.

 #530008  by Jedijk88
 
It doesn't make much sense to turn the G&U into a bridge line because CSX wouldn't want to lose revenue they already make moving the traffic on their own lines.
 #530057  by SkiScorcher88
 
While I agree completely with that, the push from the MA State Government for CSX to sell the line from Worcester to Boston complicates things. If CSX does not own the line anymore, they will have to pay to use it and if they're already paying, then why not use the G&U? I know it's not nearly as important as the old Boston & Albany mainline, but it can bridge the gap between Worcester and the Franklin branch and may save them money. While this is speculation, it does not seem that far fetched. The new CF7 has a lot more pulling power than the old Alcos. Here's an article relating to the news: http://www.telegram.com/article/2008041 ... 60700/1116

 #530134  by boatsmate
 
in refference to the crossings paved over and having to be rebuilt, the law says that any new crossing whether being rebuilt because of need(repair) or because the where paved over must be rebuilt to state spec's. meaning the must have lights, bells and crossing gates as well as street and sign warnings of crossings.

so it looks like the state is going to have to foot the bill for all the excesseries for the crossings....... and rte 16 is a state highway I belive in that area, if so then there will have to be a traffic light also. the niby's are going to love that......

 #530136  by NYC27
 
Not far fetched??? When you consider the grades and curves of the G&U that would be one slow commuter route. Add to that the fact that the only thing that wouldn't be replaced would be the right of way it doesn't make any sense. Throw NIMBYism in and that is one impossible project. Another poster stated they would need $1 million per mile to reactivate the G&U that is completely inaccurate. All they need to do is a tie job and brush cutting to put 10 mph freights back on the line, much less. The million dollar figure is what it would take to build new track.

 #530140  by bwparker1
 
Is there any sort of map that can be posted or linked to so that I can get a better sense of where the G&U line actually runs? I tried to look on Google without any luck.

Thanks,
Brooks
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