• GP40-TC/GP38H-3?

  • Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.
Discussion of Electro-Motive locomotive products and technology, past and present. Official web site can be found here: http://www.emdiesels.com/.

Moderator: GOLDEN-ARM

  by KFRG
I recently stumbled upon this type which I don't recognize. It seems this is just another one of the many custom GP40 hybrid builds (Ex. NJT's GP40FH-2's, sharing F40 components, or GP40PH-2's.) What is the GP40TC's history? What was involved in it's custom production? It looks like Amtrak has recently had them rebuilt, and de-rated to GP38"H-3's" (I guess no more turbocharger?). Any reason for this?


Thanks for the info.

  by Phil Hom
The are GMDD Canadian made for GO Transit (briefly carried as CN). The units were surplus and sold to Amtrak.
  by Allen Hazen
Amplifying Phil Hom's answer: these units (I've always assumed that the "TC" in the model designation stood for "Toronto Commuter") had a separate diesel engine in the rear of the long hood to provide HEP.
Rightly or wrongly (the merits are discussed in the "SD58" and "FP40 rebuild" strings), a number of railroads have de-turbocharged 40-series EMD locomotives to produce 2000 hp "GP38" or "SD38" types for local and/or switching service.
At a ***Guess***, amtrack intends to use these primarily for work trains (Amtrak owns a lot of the track in the Northeast Corridor and is responsible for its maintenance). That they have kept "H" as part of the new model designation, and the fact that there seem to be vents in the rear of the long hood for auxilary engine radiators, however, suggests that they still have HEP generator sets: perhaps the idea is to use them as emergency replacement power for passenger trains as well?

  by missthealcos
"TC" does stand for Toronto Commuter. I read somewhere that these units will be de-turboed into GP38 variants by Amtrak. Amtrak has owned them since 1988

  by crazy_nip
they were used regularly on the cardinal into the 90's...

  by crazy_nip
they are likely being rebuilt without turbos so that they dont have to comply with the new emissions regulations...

anything rebuilt after 2002 has to comply with emissions standards

that is why NS is rebuilding their GP50's into GP38-3's

2000 hp is the emissions requirement cutoff
  by Allen Hazen
We CARE about the environment, so we pass a law about emissions from the engines of locomotives. (Never mind that rail is ALREADY the most environmentally innocent mode of transport.)
But we make them apply to engines of OVER 2000 hp.
In this way, we give an incentive to the railroads to modify turbocharged (relatively fuel-efficient) into non-turbocharged (can you spell "CARBON"?) engines.
Oh how positively perverse!!!!!!
  by Allen Hazen
Now that I've got that little rant off my chest...
There's a note (I guess in the Amtrak section of their alphabetical roundup of news) in Issue #126 of "Extra 2200 South" about this particular project. The primary use intended for these units is on maintenance of way trains, but they ARE keeping their HEP generators (so they can be emergency protection power for passenger trains).
On a related topic.....
Someone on one of the other forums said
"You don't need to count
rivets...Just radiator
fans on top over the
vents at the back. GP38s
have 2 atop, and GP40s
have 3."
That applies to AS BUILT 40-series and 38-series locomtives, but I have the impression that de-turboed 40 series sometimes (always?) retain the third fan. (Though it's sometimes hard to count roof fans in a photo taken from ground level....) Is this right?

  by KFRG
Great stuff guys, thanks.
  by rr7011
They were originally built for the Toronto commuter railroad in 1965. They were built on SD35 frames but with GP trucks. Just like the last person said, these 8 units are for Maintenance of Way on Amtrak. The HEP was retained so that the crews can use it for power. The units are Tier 0 compliant for emissions. Special injectors and different throttle settings were used to meet the Tier 0 qualifications. The emissions cutoff is 1972 and backwards, not horsepower. Tier 0 is 1972 to 2002, Tier 1 is 2003-4, and Tier 2 is 2005 and up.

Also the NS is rebuilding the GP50's into GP38's because there is a need for 4 axle roadswitchers. No one has made new 4 axle units in a over 10 years. They were off lease and able to be easily converted.