Gov't Center Closure 2014 Discussion

BostonUrbEx wrote:Wouldn't Adam's Sq have been obliterated by the Orange Line?

Adams Square was pretty much obliterated by the building of new City Hall. There's a small segment of tunnel that remained, now used for City Hall storage. There was once a suggestion of placing servers and routers in that space, but I don't know if that ever happened.

Was there a plan to create a 2nd entrance for Government Center station? There was going to be an entrance/exit built at the far end of the Blue Line platform of Government Center?

That last I heard for the renovations of GC were to have the far end entrance reopened and the closure of Bowden.

There are some materials here
http://www.eot.state.ma.us/redblue/

rhodiecub2 wrote:Was there a plan to create a 2nd entrance for Government Center station? There was going to be an entrance/exit built at the far end of the Blue Line platform of Government Center?

Yep. Interminably delayed like everything else with the station renovation, but it's still the plan to reopen the ancient Scollay Under egress back up to the surface. Would emerge on the plaza further up Cambridge St. from the current headhouse.

Our fearless leader here John took some photos of the exit. Jealous? I am

http://sery2831.smugmug.com/Trains/Blue ... 2198_cCeGK

Knowing the MBTA, theyll open it up while they do renovations (closing the other entrance) and then as soon as the station is ready....close it, forever. Except for the occasional parade.

jamesinclair wrote:Knowing the MBTA, theyll open it up while they do renovations (closing the other entrance) and then as soon as the station is ready....close it, forever. Except for the occasional parade.

No no no; they first have to spend a ton of money repainting, installing new lighting, security cameras, fare gates, signage, and let people get really used to the convenience. Only then can they inexplicably tear out the new signs, install emergency exit gates on the platforms, and let all the new expensive equipment rust.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=42.351238,-7 ... 51,,0,22.1
*sigh*

FP10 wrote:

jamesinclair wrote:Knowing the MBTA, theyll open it up while they do renovations (closing the other entrance) and then as soon as the station is ready....close it, forever. Except for the occasional parade.

No no no; they first have to spend a ton of money repainting, installing new lighting, security cameras, fare gates, signage, and let people get really used to the convenience. Only then can they inexplicably tear out the new signs, install emergency exit gates on the platforms, and let all the new expensive equipment rust.

http://maps.google.com/?ll=42.351238,-7 ... 51,,0,22.1
*sigh*

I find the wording of the sign a little odd considering that is an entrance to Arlington Station.

BostonUrbEx wrote:As I said on ArchBoston, this is a complete waste of money and/or time.

Assembly Sq will be built from scratch in a projected 3 years with only night/weekend shutdowns. Government Center will take 3 years of COMPLETE closure for a renovation.

I'd like to throw our there that I am 100% confident that the "modern" headhouse -- which will undoubtedly cost a great deal of money -- will look more like the Porter "outhouse" (covered in pigeon gifts and other grime!) in no time.

Considering this station is pivotal in those transferring between the Red and Blue lines, this is ridiculous. Shall we just cram more people into the Orange Line? Why don't they follow through on the functional Red-Blue connector rather than the Government Center aesthetics?

Good that you point out the Assembly Square project. The difference between it and the ADA improvements to an MBTA station is that Assembly Square is a private development. It's really quite simple, contractors and designers take public officials to the cleaners on any and all public projects. They find the most expensive way to do what is requested, that will use the most materials possible and take the longest time; and why? Because, most public officials are pretty dumb, and it's not their money being spent. Whereas, in the private market, you'll see people who are spending their own money get the most bang for the buck. They not only care about every $million, they care about how every dollar is spent and will analyze every aspect of the design for functionality, efficiency and cost effectiveness relative to their goal. That just simply doesn't happen in government projects. And that is why the State of Mass. is willing to tally up a $billion to lay down four miles of simple railroad tracks on flat land (green line extension). And now they are going to spend $56 to $72 million to install two or three elevators, and everyone says "So what?"

ThinkBoston wrote:Good that you point out the Assembly Square project. The difference between it and the ADA improvements to an MBTA station is that Assembly Square is a private development. It's really quite simple, contractors and designers take public officials to the cleaners on any and all public projects. They find the most expensive way to do what is requested, that will use the most materials possible and take the longest time; and why? Because, most public officials are pretty dumb, and it's not their money being spent. Whereas, in the private market, you'll see people who are spending their own money get the most bang for the buck. They not only care about every $million, they care about how every dollar is spent and will analyze every aspect of the design for functionality, efficiency and cost effectiveness relative to their goal. That just simply doesn't happen in government projects. And that is why the State of Mass. is willing to tally up a $billion to lay down four miles of simple railroad tracks on flat land (green line extension). And now they are going to spend $56 to $72 million to install two or three elevators, and everyone says "So what?"

Really quite simple, aye ? Most public officials dumb ? That's a pretty wide brush that you paint transportation execs with, and although I'm not nor ever been politically connected (I'm just not interested), I don't see this as a simple problem, don't see the execs that I've spoken to as "dumb, and certainly don't believe that the errors in construction over the last decade can be faulted with any of your simplistic logic. I question your legitimacy to begin with, always have, as you seem to throw out these generic comments which are more akin to an out-of-state high schooler in a civics class than someone who knows what they're talking about.

The problem here is a complex one, not simple, and it's root causes are political patronage, fraternal subjectivity, and union domination, not "dumbness" as you profess. The likes of Daniel Grabauskas, Richard Davey, and Jeffrey Mullan are far from "dumb", and, in my opinion, have all tried in a world of politicism to construct viable policy and projects. Have you ever met any of these gentlemen ? Secondly, no politician or executive (or anyone for that matter) knows enough about all the sciences to make be able to genuinely evaluate an operation on their own. They rely on so called experts and are therefore at their mercy in as much as getting good information is concerned. Unfortunately, what I have called out as a source of the problems, enters into what an expert evaluates and presents to a public official.

ThinkBoston wrote: And that is why the State of Mass. is willing to tally up a $billion to lay down four miles of simple railroad tracks on flat land (green line extension). And now they are going to spend $56 to $72 million to install two or three elevators, and everyone says "So what?"

I like to think I don't shy away from critiquing public officials when warranted*, but calling the Green Line extension "four miles of simple railroad track on flat land" is a bit of a low blow. Multiple stations which will require ADA compliant access from bridges above, the construction of essentially TWO double track lines through much of the corridor (remember that the Lowell Line tracks will have to be shifted as well), bridge replacements, changes to overpasses and retaining walls, a new interlocking between the two branches and the shop/yard leads, a new shop and yard (which got more expensive not through the wishes of bureaucrats but from outside political pressure forcing it onto parcels that will require the state to buy and relocate businesses), substations, catenary, signals, oh, and a new elevated station because the private funding deal for that fell through. Not quite as simple as it sounds at first.

Prez’s bill gives T’s Gov’t Center plan a big boost

Sunday, July 8, 2012
The MBTA’s planned overhaul of Government Center station got a major shot in the arm with the signing Friday of President Obama’s transportation package that will provide $2 billion in federal funds to Bay State transit projects.
http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/v ... position=4

Blue-Red Connector

No but really this time. The MBTA is now saying that Government Center is going to close starting mid-2013 for two years.

http://www.boston.com/yourtown/news/dow ... ation.html

The Government Center subway station is scheduled to shut down for two years starting around late summer or early fall of 2013 so that construction can be done on an estimated $90 million project to renovate and rebuild part of the busy station at City Hall Plaza, MBTA officials said.

Officials from the T and the state transportation department will hold a public meeting on Wednesday, Dec. 12 to discuss the project and the station’s planned temporary closure due to construction, officials said. It is scheduled to run from 5:30 to 7 p.m. in conference rooms B, C, and D on the second floor at 100 Cambridge St.

They're very insistent on building a gigantic glass headhouse. Not that City Hall is any prettier, but they could at least have chosen something mildly similar to the old downtown architecture.

Download link for a presentation containing renderings and plans.

Unfortunately, the presentation link is coming through with unreadable code.