I agree the shoes might be a bit hard to get.
Anybody know what brake schedule a GG1 had?
Anybody know what brake schedule a GG1 had?
Railroad Forums
Moderator: Otto Vondrak
NYCRRson wrote:Dear BR&P, I hear all of your arguments. However, your examples of "one time moves" (transformers, etc) are with modern specialized railroad equipment that is leased out to subsequent customers to eventually recoup the capital costs of the equipment for the owners. The equipment meets the standard requirements for interchange of railroad equipment (plate "F" or "G" or whatever). The railroad has a system in place to handle that safely and can price it to make a profit. And their liability is transferred to the specialized equipment owner, if something goes wrong they can rightfully say; "The owner of special flatcar #3800 told us it was safe, if it failed it is their responsibility".The railroad can indeed say that it is not responsible, but the railroad will lose that argument in court every time. The railroad can perhaps in advance enter into an indemnification agreement with the owner of the specialized railcar which may or may not make the railroad whole, but the railroad remains liable for damages and the shipper/owner of the transformer or other product is entitled to be paid for their loss by the railroad subject to any contract of carriage provisions.
Train Detainer wrote:The Ford museum unit was prepped for rail shipment, including making the brakes operable and lubrication. The work was done 'in the field', without much unexpected difficulty. I know some of the people who did the work over a couple of weeks. IIRC the brake job was complete (or nearly complete) when it was found out that a certain RR turned down handling their portion of the move. I don't recall anything that would preclude an FRA waiver from covering the (interchange) move so long as detailed routing is listed/adhered to, but I don't think a waiver obligates a carrier for a special move like general interchange/common carrier rules.For a shop move, the owner is now Ford, the home shop is Dearborn. The entire move is on one railroad now - there is no more interchange issue.
Also, heavy equipment without working brakes can be moved under waiver, with adequate cars attached for braking effort. Not much different than moving defective cars with runaround hoses and a well qualified engineer, but having working brakes on a heavy loco increases safety and likely-hood of getting it moved. If this was moved under waiver, it would more than likely go by special/dimensional service, not in a train that would be humped.
Noel Weaver wrote:Moving a piece of equipment of this size and weight WITHOUT OPERABLE AIR BRAKES is insane and just plain will not happen. Air brake work on something of this nature will not take place literally out in the middle of nowhere in upstate New York is just about impossible.
Those of you who think these things could just be moved are not aware of realities and just plain common sense.
The weight of a GG-1 is something like UP 3985 and without brakes if the thing were to happen to get away all hell could happen.A GG1 weighs 475,000 lbs, presuming it's fully equipped and intact and no PCB-laden transformers have been removed.
No insurance company will take the risk without millions and millions in costs. Just imagine what a loose object of this size and weight could cause in damages and the lawsuits that would result from such an event? The only practical way to move them would be on a railroad flat car designed to move such heavy equipment if available and I suspect such a car or cars could be available at a cost. Highway move at this location although close to I-88 would be both cumbersome and very expensive to say nothing of the risk of such a move. 4935 from Strasburg to Washington is not nearly the distance and involves only Amtrak. I'll bet they made the brakes operable on the 4935 before such a move took place. 4935 did not lay out in the woods for many years before this move took place and probably the brakes were updated before the move took place. I ran these motors many times and just stopping them on a dime with good brakes takes practice and work, without brakes I would not even want to think what could or would happen.Two GP38's had no problem stopping one at low speed. None. Add 10 loaded fracking sand or cenemt cars and keep her at 25 the whole way and you should be fine. Maybe it just takes a talented engineer. But, as noted, we can make the brakes work on it, so it doesn't matter so much.
As I have said, the only practical way to move them is as a shipment on a flat car and I don't think any railroad would refuse such a move provided it meets their safety requirements for a dimensional shipment. Otherwise on site scrap is probably the best they can face although that might too be far in the future.At 79 feel long, a flatcar move would likely require three cars also traveling at restricted speeds - one for each truck frame and one for the carbody. So it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. Well, except it will weigh more that way.
Noel Weaver
For a shop move, the owner is now Ford, the home shop is Dearborn. The entire move is on one railroad now - there is no more interchange issue.Not quite sure what you mean by "home shop". If there was something which had to be repaired prior to the move, it would not be moved all the way to Michigan to have the work done.
H.F.Malone wrote:GG1 brake schedule is 24-RL. Valves are available, and certified shops such as Multi-Service can service and rack test them. 24-RL is more expensive to get a locomotive "set" done than the most common 26-L, but it's nowhere near difficult.24 makes perfect sense. At one time many years ago, I was told they had number 8 brakes (obviously unique and dated). Does that ring a bell with anyone or am I hallucinating (again...)? Unique to PRR electrics?
Of the 139 units built, only 16 survive today.Source: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/GG1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Matt Langworthy wrote:The site is stale with respect to the condition and location of the URHS of NJ GG1s. Here is a photo taken two years ago at Boonton, NJ. http://urhs.org/pictures/PRR-4879-4877- ... ivesey.jpgOf the 139 units built, only 16 survive today.Source: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/GG1/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The link also has notes about the condition of each existing GG1. Some of them are definitely better off than others.
Ken W2KB wrote:The site is stale with respect to the condition and location of the URHS of NJ GG1s. Here is a photo taken two years ago at Boonton, NJ. http://urhs.org/pictures/PRR-4879-4877- ... ivesey.jpgNot necessarily... The site does specifically mention that the author was informed in 2014 of the repainting of both locos. Doesn't mean it's stale, just that no one has actually sent a photo or that the author hasn't been able to get out to see them him/herself.