Railroad Forums 

  • Gensee Regional Market trackage in Henrietta/Rochester

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

 #63941  by CoalTrain
 
A few more words on the subject. I admit to a little personal bias here, but I'll try to keep it objective. And keep in mind that this is only my perception of the situation.
When the idea of the Regional Market was conceived, it was sold to the public as a modern step which would bring the distribution of food in the Rochester area into the 20th century. The idea was that it would replace the Public Market on Union Street, in downtown Rochester. This step has been taken successfully in many cities around the world, like New York, which moved, I think, to Hunts Point, London to the new Covent Garden in the suburbs, and so on. But Rochesterians loved the Public Market. No-one wanted to go way out to Jefferson Road for something that for years and years had been in their own back yard, so to speak. . Even the wholesalers didn't want to go to Jefferson Road, I think because it was more inconvenient for them, too. To sum it up, there was no public or business support for the Regional Market. It never fulfilled its promise to be a grand, modern, expansive facility, because people just weren't interested in using it. It foundered, a few wholesalers filled some of the space, like Louis Fishgold and Palmer Foods, but it became an anachronism on the local scene. It's still there, still waiting to be all it can be, albeit now without its rail access, and the city's Public Market just recently received a large infusion of cash to dress it up and improve it as people flock to it every weekend to buy from the hundreds of vendors who appear every week. (I admit, my wife and I are among those people every other Saturday, where at 6:30 in the morning, we buy meat and produce and fruit and eggs and often a lot of other stuff.) And wholesale meat and produce are still found in several different locations around the city.
So, in answer to your question, no, the business hasn't evaporated. It was never there. But there's still Lori's Natural Food and Palmer's Fish Market, both good reasons to turn in off Jefferson Road.
By the way, I was in the first RIT class to graduate from the new campus in 1970. (Probably one of the oldest students in the class!)

 #64062  by nydepot
 
It's still pretty busy although many other types businesses now populate the market.

 #64121  by Otto Vondrak
 
Off topic- It seems like the city tried to move everything they could south to Henrietta- the main post office for instance. Is that why no mail goes to Henrietta, only Rochester, NY 14623?

Any railroaders out there- did the West Shore Branch local have a job symbol that orginated from Goodman Street? in the NYC days? the PC days? the CR days?

-otto-

 #64234  by BR&P
 
It was called the Genesee Junction Traveling Switcher, often shortened to "The Junction".

 #64280  by roadster
 
BR&P
Thats strange, the 2 former NYC guys still working for CSX at Rochester with me said the place was going with 3 jobs, 24 hrs. I can't imagine why they would lie about it. They used to work those jobs.

 #64291  by clearblock
 
Roadster,

I wonder how far back in the NYC era your guys were working? It may have been busier then.

I have been in the Rochester area since 66 but I did not pay much attention to NYC operations until after the PC merger when a Maintainer friend was bumped out of Dewitt to Rochester and he kept me advised of what was happening. In the PC era, I remember exactly what BR&P described with "The Junction" job being the regular operation but with "Extra Travelling Switcher" jobs also working as needed.

 #64308  by BR&P
 
Roadster - who are the two guys? Some of those conductor-types are a bit fuzzy, LOL.

Joking aside, think about it. Those are not YARD jobs, they're traveling switchers. While a yard job might be posted for 8-hour days, a traveling switcher was not. They went 16, then 14, and finally 12 hours now. So even IF they had worked around the clock there, it would have been two crews, not three. And they just plain didn't.

Ask those jokers what time frame they are talking about - I know it was only one job from 1967 to about 1980. I don't think the market was around too long before that - and the old timers from those days are gone anyway. And by 1980 or so some of the business was gone so there would be no need.

It's possible that on some rare occasion they may have had to call an extra crew or a relief crew if the Junction crew had a problem. But I'll stand by my statement they never had 3 crews a day there, or worked around the clock on any sort of regular basis.

As an afterthought, if you were talking about some real old retired guys, I'd wonder if they were talking about the PORTLAND AVENUE market. I have heard that in the old days there was a separate Portland Avenue job, never heard of it being 3 tricks but it's possible.

 #64312  by BR&P
 
Roadster, one possible answer - there's about a 4-year space from 1969 to 1972 that I can't be positive about. If they ever did put a second crew on, and later went back to only one, it could have been in that time frame and I would not have been aware of it. I still maintain that with the job handled off the road list it would not have had 3 crews, only 2.

 #64377  by Otto Vondrak
 
Maybe "round the clock" referred to some "hot" cars that were cut out of incoming freights and shuttled right to the market at various times of day (for whatever reason).

-otto-

 #64395  by BR&P
 
The Junction was an early morning start - 4 or 5AM I think - and would handle perishable cars to the dealers. Other customers were also taken care of, but spotting the produce was "hot".

I just got off the phone with an old-timer who has been retired 15 years, and used to work the job regular for a long time. He confirmed that they never had more than one Genesee Junction crew, except for a relief crew once in a while.

Roadster, I'm not sure what those guys are thinking of. Obviously the farther back in time you go, the more jobs there were. But if the market itself was built in the early '60s, there were no "real old days" for it.

 #64420  by clearblock
 
BR&P,

The 1969 to 1972 period was around the time I referred to in my post when I agreed with you that I recall 1 Junction job running early weekday mornings to afternoon with the occasional extra job on weekends or late weekday evenings. During that time I lived very close to the West Shore in the Pittsford area and was hanging around with PC people so I was fairly familiar with what was happening.

While we are on the subject of the West Shore, I had mentioned in a previous post that there were some road jobs with regular pick up/set off work at Genesee Junction Yard in the PC and early CR era. I think it was a Niagara Falls/Dewitt or Selkirk train, an Elkhart/Selkirk and possibly one other that I can't recall. I believe the tanks for Monoco were set off and picked up at Genesee Junction Yard by one of these road jobs and switched to Monaco by the Junction job?

Before the Shore was upgraded, it was also common for dimension trains or trains that could not maintain main line track speed to get sent over the Shore.

 #64429  by BR&P
 
It's correct that dimension trains often used the Shore. There was something in particular - near the Rochester Depot I believe - that presented close clearance if going via the main line.

I'm not sure but I think eastbound FD2 or FD4 would occasionally set off at Genesee Junction yard. IIRC, the Monoco tanks usually came to Goodman Street yard or else were set off at Wayneport on the South Ice or the Attic Track. They came from the east so that was a different operation than the eastbounds. Let me ask a few questions and see if I can come up with a few more details.

 #64435  by tony_p
 
Otto,

Keep in mind that the city of Rochester had essentially no real estate left for development, especially not large multi-acre parcels adjacent to rail lines. Hence Xerox in Webster, Kodak's former Elmgrove plant, the post office, all of the megamalls, etc.

Anyway, I believe that the USPS chooses the sites for post offices, not the municipalities. FYI, Henrietta has 5 zip codes:

14467 - Henrietta
14534 - Pittsford
14543 - Rush, Industry, West Rush
14586 - West Henrietta
14623 - Rochester

I can remember taking trips to the GVRM as a child for fresh produce. My mother didn't like going to the public market - this was long before the current "gentrification" of the public market.
I remember what is now 590 ending at Winton road, as well as reefers in the GVRM. Somewhere my parents have pictures of the Freedom Train - does anyone know why that location was chosen?

Les - when I asked about roads alongside the West Shore, I meant the two road that run parallel to the tracks on either side of West Henrietta road just south of the bridge. Now I know that one was for the team track, but the other seems to serve no purpose.

 #64537  by nessman
 
tony_p wrote:Les - when I asked about roads alongside the West Shore, I meant the two road that run parallel to the tracks on either side of West Henrietta road just south of the bridge. Now I know that one was for the team track, but the other seems to serve no purpose.
Likely MOW access.

 #64833  by roadster
 
BR&P,
This may have involved 2 jobs which may have outlawed on occassion resulting in a "3rd" crew. Gino, Harry, and Fred have all mentioned how busy the place was and outlawing quite often. I am still getting used to "Railroader" story telling and the possible angles. lol