• Gateway without the Secaucus loop

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: lensovet, nick11a, Kaback9

  by ExCon90
 
It looks to me that since the NEC tracks on the Upper Level and the Main/Bergen/PVL tracks on the Lower cross at a 90-degree angle there is almost no space for a direct connection between the two without a mezzanine, and no room at all for a mezzanine between the elevations of the respective platforms, making it necessary to put the "mezzanine" (what to call it -- suprazine?) above both levels. The Upper Level can't be raised because of the proximity of the North River Tunnels, and the Lower Level can't be lowered because the tracks are at approximately the same level as the nearby Conrail tracks which pass beneath the NEC just to the west of the portals and are below the water table as it is. (If you ride an Amtrak or NJT train through the North River Tunnels you can see each of the Conrail tracks in a concrete "bathtub" which requires sump pumps to keep it from flooding.) No wonder the Jersey Meadows remained undeveloped for so long.
  by lensovet
 
Yeah I guess they did this to implement the fare gates. Maybe when they finally get rid of paper tickets they can also add direct elevators.
  by njtmnrrbuff
 
In many parts of Bergen County, the bus actually does fine moving people to the city in even moderate traffic, as long as if it's not a parking lot. The main focus for Gateway Project should really be improving the track capacity on the NEC. As an Upper Montclair resident, I've used Secaucus Jct plenty of times as sometimes on the weekends when I go into the city, I board a train at Clifton Station-takes 40 to 45 minutes to travel into NYP from Clifton counting the transfer at SEC. Maybe 5 minutes could be shave at SEC if NJT ever can offer direct elevators and escalators from the upper level platforms to the lower level. Plus I could probably see 5 additional minutes being shaved off of the schedule for travel on NJT trains from SEC-NYP once more track capacity is added on the High Line.
  by F40
 
njtmnrrbuff wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:39 pm In many parts of Bergen County, the bus actually does fine moving people to the city in even moderate traffic, as long as if it's not a parking lot. The main focus for Gateway Project should really be improving the track capacity on the NEC. As an Upper Montclair resident, I've used Secaucus Jct plenty of times as sometimes on the weekends when I go into the city, I board a train at Clifton Station-takes 40 to 45 minutes to travel into NYP from Clifton counting the transfer at SEC. Maybe 5 minutes could be shave at SEC if NJT ever can offer direct elevators and escalators from the upper level platforms to the lower level. Plus I could probably see 5 additional minutes being shaved off of the schedule for travel on NJT trains from SEC-NYP once more track capacity is added on the High Line.
Agree on all points. At SEC, there is no reason you shouldn't be able to make a 6-minute connection (even a 5 minute connection) if it weren't for all of the stairs and escalators. In addition, the dispatchers in general could do a better job at moving trains eastbound east of Dock (and SEC) as there should be no reason for a train to sit there for 6 minutes at 11pm on a weekday when there is hardly any traffic. I thought things would get better when operations moved to CETC at NYP after Dock Tower shut down in 2017.
  by lensovet
 
Dcell wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:57 pm https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny- ... story.html
That's hilarious.

Someone is actually saying with a straight face that the MTA, which spent untold billions of dollars and years building a 1-mile subway extension, is a better guardian of public funds than Amtrak and New Jersey?

It's funny how much people in NY love to dunk on those who live in NJ. Are they truly so insecure in their superiority?
  by Tom V
 
The FTA raised the Gateway project’s rating clearing the way for Federal funding:

https://www.northjersey.com/story/news ... 598352001/
The financing plan for Gateway’s first phase requests nearly $5.5 billion in federal funds, about 44% of the total project cost. Amtrak committed nearly $1.3 billion, the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey will chip in $2.1 billion, and the remaining $3.35 billion would be split using state funds from New York and New Jersey.

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  by west point
 
Same old Daily News. Buddy up to your readers. Take a few facts and twist them.
  by Tom V
 
I don’t know why the NY Daily News Opinion folks have been pushing this nonsense.


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  by amtrakowitz
 
What nonsense? What is non-bloated about $35 billion, which is more than enough to build thirty Penn Stations?
  by MattW
 
ExCon90 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 8:24 pm It looks to me that since the NEC tracks on the Upper Level and the Main/Bergen/PVL tracks on the Lower cross at a 90-degree angle there is almost no space for a direct connection between the two without a mezzanine, and no room at all for a mezzanine between the elevations of the respective platforms, making it necessary to put the "mezzanine" (what to call it -- suprazine?) above both levels. The Upper Level can't be raised because of the proximity of the North River Tunnels, and the Lower Level can't be lowered because the tracks are at approximately the same level as the nearby Conrail tracks which pass beneath the NEC just to the west of the portals and are below the water table as it is. (If you ride an Amtrak or NJT train through the North River Tunnels you can see each of the Conrail tracks in a concrete "bathtub" which requires sump pumps to keep it from flooding.) No wonder the Jersey Meadows remained undeveloped for so long.
Hmmm, you might not be able to get every platform to connect, but Atlanta's MARTA's Five Points station is a similar configuration and there are several direct access points between both sets of tracks. Of course, Five Points has the advantage of only two tracks on each level, and all four of those tracks being served by both side and island platforms (both sides of the train open). It could definitely be done from the side NEC platforms down to the PVL platforms, but the NEC island platform, I don't know.
  by [email protected]
 
Living in Teaneck, where we have the 157,165R, 167Q, 11A and the Spanish Jitney bus within walking distance, there is one constant thing - all the buses are wildly unpredictable in terms of travel time, especially int he evening, when there are significant inbound/outbound delays in the Lincoln Tunnel area.

Often, you show up at the PABT gate, and there are 500 people in front of you waiting for your bus, and 45 minutes pass until you can get on a standing room only bus that then takes 30 minutes to reach the Turnpike....

On off-peak hours and weekends, the bus situation is much worse, because 495 can take 25 minutes to travel the entire weekend.

If I want to take the family into the city, we usually end up driving to Secaucus and taking a train from there rather than taking the 1676 bus, because the reliability is so bad.

This doesn't consider the buses that simply never show up, especially with 20/30-minute headways midday.

The main issue with the PVL is that most trains from NYP have outbound delays and you can very easily miss a connection with the next northbound train being 45-120 minutes later.

If the PVL planners did their job correctly and simply build the second track from Wood-ridge to Spring Valley, and had 15 minute headways (even with 3 car trainsets - I can see them purchasing 25 Nippon Sharyo DMU cars and running that all day with a very small crew sizes).

This would mean that you "just show up at track H in SEC" and not have anxiety that you just missed your connection and you need to sit around for an hour for the next train.

Compare this situation to the 165T or 165R - you just show up at PABT and if you were delayed on the subway, there is a bus every 5-10 minuters that takes you home. No juggling a third transfer, a third travel leg that could go terribly delayed or a low frequency transfer.
  by amtrakowitz
 
15-minute headways on the PVL, seriously?
  by lensovet
 
Don't blame the planners, blame the NIMBYs who refused to allow passing sidings to be built in their towns.

Also I'm confused how you managed to both talk about the unreliability of the bus and the convenience of the bus in the same post.