• Gateway clears it's last Federal approval

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

  by Greg Moore
I'll add too, that the infrastructure in place (buildings, and more) is vastly greater now than 100 years ago. Among other concerns I've read is at least on the Manhattan, making sure the new tunneling doesn't exist the original tunnels. Obviously something that wasn't an issued 100+ years ago.

On the NJ side, a lot more buildings who you can't allow to collapse, etc.

That said, the US does seem to have a problem with large infrastructure projects compared to many European nations that often face similar challenges. I have my own thoughts on why, but for another time.
  by Gilbert B Norman
Funny how over in "my Disneyland" otherwise known as the Republic of Austria, which does not profess to have any HSR, they are presently digging a 55km tunnel under the Brenner Pass, from Innsbruck into Italy. If that is not enough, they are also digging a tunnel 27km under the Semmering Pass between Graz and Vienna.

Funny how they dig while we politik.
  by eolesen
To be fair, the Brenner tunnel started 14 years ago and won't open for another 10. There was also little to no dispute over government funding... people don't seem to care about who gets elected to the EU parliament as much as they do here.

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  by Gilbert B Norman
Off Gateway, I've ridden over the Brenner Pass both rail and auto. You hardly know it's a pass. The Romans built a road during 200AD (wait volks, isn't there non-sectarian "newspeak" nowadays for BC and AD?) over Brenner. So, as Mr. Olesen implies, why are they "pouring €" into such - and for questionable benefit?

Now that under Semmering is a different story. Even sharing a bottle of Gruner Veltliner with an English-speaking Polish gal I met at the Graz Hbf, you sensed that the Czech RailJet was "laboring" up and over Semmering. The views are "spectacular" and you can see trains ahead and behind yours, let alone the opposite direction.
  by Red Wing
Maybe Sir you should look at another German speaking country, Deutchland. The Stuttgart 21 should have opened 2 years ago and now projected to open in 2025. It is also in an urban environment like Gateway and not going under a mountain with little to no utilities, other tunnels and, foundations to contend with like the base tunnel projects.

Oh it's had cost overruns and issues with politics too.

  by kitchin
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:18 am (wait volks, isn't there non-sectarian "newspeak" nowadays for BC and AD?)
B.C.E. and C.E.

"E" for era (lower case). You decide if "C" means "Christian" or "common." In German it's "v.u.Z." and "u.Z." But they don't even have Wednesday, because of cancelling Woden.
  by west point
Yet Cho's listing by the FTA as a low priority project is slowing up the money. Someone needs knocking some heads together to get an upgraded priority post haste. Wouldn't you say that is another approval needed?
  by eolesen
You and others keep pointing at Chou and Trump, yet it's been decades of NY and NJ foot dragging on their portion that resulted in those project rankings... and that has long term precedent.

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  by Gilbert B Norman
Wasn't Gov. Christie more the villain than was Mrs. McConnell?

The Governor's outright cancellation of the admittedly flawed ARC project (the one only for NJT terminating 100ft below Macy's at Herald Square) just "took the wind out of the sails" regarding any tunnel's efficacy -and those thoughts permeated through the Trump administration.

OK, now Gateway is funded under IIJA21; let's see if that is enough to have shovels in the ground - well, beyond hard hatted dignitaries with Gold plated shovels and the photo-op.

Finally, if we have any archeologists around here, can anyone locate the remains of what was actually dug with ARC?
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Sat Dec 04, 2021 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by amtrakowitz
Ken W2KB wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 1:56 pm
amtrakowitz wrote: Thu Dec 02, 2021 4:21 am How many of us here will be in our graves by the time this opens, even presuming on schedule?

Only took the PRR two years to build the original tunnels under the Hudson River. Even in spite of technological advances in tunneling, federal governmental bureaucratic morass (which should have no role in the total process of passenger rail infrastructure) turns a project that should have been built and opened at least twenty years ago into a travesty.
Perhaps to avoid a repeat of this: “A Manhattan coroner estimated that at least 50 sandhogs died in the first five months of 1906 in the construction of Pennsylvania Railroad tunnels.”
Note my point about “technological advances”, which should be the mitigating factor, not unnecessarily extending construction time 3½ years longer (never mind the factor that costs have expanded) than the project from 113 years ago.
  by photobug56
Question - is the Daily News right in saying that the Portal Bridge(s) does not need to be super high, could be much lower, openable for the once in a while traffic underneath, and cost maybe 10% of what is planned? And could all 4 tracks worth of bridge be built together?
  by STrRedWolf
The problem is opening and closing it... and the delays that occur when it doesn't close all the way. The new Portal Bridge(s) are designed that they don't need to be opened for the traffic being sailed under it.

To be honest, though, they can go even lower... like below ground/river... and it'll be VERY expensive.
  by west point
Absolutely not. Consider the source. By the time you buy the operating mechanism, the tower for lift or extra equipment the costs are probably the same. the below water foundations will be the same except the foundations for a draw bridge will have to be much more robust that just a flyover of the water. Since the necessary width clearances for boat traffic is the same for either draw or flyover the same the trackwork over the freeboard will cost nearly the same.

It is not advisable anymore to put 4 tracks on one bridge span. 2 separate 2 track bridge spans have much better chance of one span surviving a derail or boat bridge strike.

An example is the WALK bridge replacement of a four track swing bridge with 2 two track lift bridges
  by photobug56
Understood, but how many billions should such a pair of bridges cost? Everything about this project screams Taj Mahal - IOTW extremely expensive, along with far more expensive than anywhere else.