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  • Freight Trains Crash in South Carolina

  • Discussion relating to the NS operations. Official web site can be found here: NSCORP.COM.
Discussion relating to the NS operations. Official web site can be found here: NSCORP.COM.

 #85675  by metman499
 
It doesn't have to be the crew who left the switch lined and locked. Keys, even the ones that are identified only by numbers are not all that hard to get a hold of. I would not rule out sabotage because of this.
 #85685  by Santa Fe Sucks
 
Noel Weaver wrote:Distant switch signals at one time were very common in the railroad
industry. They were used on lines that were otherwise unsignaled or
what you would call dark territory.
I think the Long Island for one still uses them today. The New Haven
Railroad at one time had them all over the place.
Such signals are generally a mile or two short of a facing point switch or
maybe a number of facing point switches that get considerable use for
clearing, meeting or switching.
Having a distant switch signal at a location like this one would have cost a
lot less than this unfortunate, costly catastrophe has cost the Norfolk
Southern and its neighbors, the community and the customer.
Lets not be too quick to pass judgement on this one, the investigations are
still proceeding and may take a while to conclude.
Noel Weaver
Actually the cheapest method for preventing this would have been for the train's crew to line the switch back for the main
 #85706  by Art
 
Is there a rule somewhere that states that switches shall be realigned for the main track after use? From reading the news articles on this tragedy it looks like the conductor on the local left the switch aligned for the siding and locked it, then they left for the night. Where were their heads? Was it poor training with all the hiring the railroads are doing these days.. Mabey they were overworked and just forgot. We'll find out soon enough. I do feel for all involved with this.
 #85742  by Noel Weaver
 
Santa Fe Sucks wrote:
Noel Weaver wrote:Distant switch signals at one time were very common in the railroad
industry. They were used on lines that were otherwise unsignaled or
what you would call dark territory.
I think the Long Island for one still uses them today. The New Haven
Railroad at one time had them all over the place.
Such signals are generally a mile or two short of a facing point switch or
maybe a number of facing point switches that get considerable use for
clearing, meeting or switching.
Having a distant switch signal at a location like this one would have cost a
lot less than this unfortunate, costly catastrophe has cost the Norfolk
Southern and its neighbors, the community and the customer.
Lets not be too quick to pass judgement on this one, the investigations are
still proceeding and may take a while to conclude.
Noel Weaver
Actually the cheapest method for preventing this would have been for the train's crew to line the switch back for the main
HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THE CREW DID NOT LINE THE SWITCH BACK
FOR THE MAIN????? In my days on the railroad in the course of an
investigation for an incident of this nature, the company officials did not
prejudge something serious. Are you part of management?, or are you
some one just guessing? Whatever the case, your comments are disgusting.

My guess is that you are some "know it all railfan" who has NO connection
with any railroad.
Noel Weaver

 #85749  by Fred Stacey
 
Santa Fe Sucks wrote:SAFEST RAILROAD IN THE USA!
Not now, not especially after that accident, dude.

Sorry to say, but with these crashes, that superlative of safest railroad will have to be taken away.

 #85780  by Santa Fe Sucks
 
Noel Weaver wrote:
Santa Fe Sucks wrote:
Noel Weaver wrote: HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THE CREW DID NOT LINE THE SWITCH BACK
FOR THE MAIN????? In my days on the railroad in the course of an
investigation for an incident of this nature, the company officials did not
prejudge something serious.
I'm not prejudging either. All I offered was the simplest solution, but I guess you'd rather turn this into an internet flaming contest.

Are you part of management?, or are you
some one just guessing? Whatever the case, your comments are disgusting.
How is suggesting that crew follow the current rules disgusting?
My guess is that you are some "know it all railfan" who has NO connection with any railroad.
Yeah really, what do I know? I only work for one.
Last edited by Santa Fe Sucks on Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 #85847  by CSX Conductor
 
Art wrote:Is there a rule somewhere that states that switches shall be realigned for the main track after use? From reading the news articles on this tragedy it looks like the conductor on the local left the switch aligned for the siding and locked it, then they left for the night. Where were their heads? Was it poor training with all the hiring the railroads are doing these days.. Mabey they were overworked and just forgot. We'll find out soon enough. I do feel for all involved with this.
Yes Art. Before reporting clear with the dispatcher all switches are supposed to be lined & locked in their 'normal' position. On NORAC Rules in Form D territory, only one train would be allowed within a certain portion of track, and until that crew reports clear th dispatcher can't allow another movement into that same section of track. Now, assuming that this is what the situation was in this case, it is possible that the crew forgot to line the switch for the main-line and reported to the dispacther that they had....ad he let the main-line move through.

As for poor training and all the new hires that the railroads are doing.....that doesn't always mean anything. A guy with 30+ years of service could have a bad day and make mistakes. None of us are perfect, that is why we cannot lay blame on anybody until all the facts are facts as opposed to assumptions.

 #85986  by AmtrakFan
 
Well my thoughts and Prayers go to the Families involed.

John

 #86042  by Noel Weaver
 
Santa Fe Sucks wrote:
Noel Weaver wrote:
Santa Fe Sucks wrote:
Noel Weaver wrote: HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THE CREW DID NOT LINE THE SWITCH BACK
FOR THE MAIN????? In my days on the railroad in the course of an
investigation for an incident of this nature, the company officials did not
prejudge something serious.
I'm not prejudging either. All I offered was the simplest solution, but I guess you'd rather turn this into an internet flaming contest.

Are you part of management?, or are you
some one just guessing? Whatever the case, your comments are disgusting.
How is suggesting that crew follow the current rules disgusting?
My guess is that you are some "know it all railfan" who has NO connection with any railroad.
Yeah really, what do I know? I only work for one.
Back quite a few years ago to my firing days, I was in an accident
involving an open switch. Don't take it personally, I just do not like to see
someone prejudge a very unfortunate incident with heavy damage and
major loss of life until the authorities have come to a conclusion.
OH, YES, I was luck, outside of a shaking up, I was not injured but I could
have been. The one I was involved in also involved a passenger train and
the results could have been a lot worse than they were.
In their haste to cut costs, the railroads have often removed safety
devices such as distant switch signals, automatic block signals and other
apparatus. Penn Central, years ago, was no stranger to that tatic,
anything to reduce costs, they did not really care about safety for their
crews. Only try to "bag" someone everytime something went wrong which
in the case of Penn Central in the early 1970's was quite frequently.
I don't know if you have experienced anything of this nature or not but
you have to experience it to appreciate what I am saying here.
My HEART goes out to all of the families involved in this terrible loss.
Noel Weaver

 #86055  by efin98
 
Santa Fe Sucks, pay no mind to Mr. Weaver. He prefers to dwell on his past and flame anybody who does not agree with him despite being entirely wrong. You aren't the first current railroader he has blasted for not agreeing with his view of reality.

You are entirely in the right and are supported by the accounts from officials at the scene who actually saw the switch was set in the wrong position and who are in a position to make the judgment. But what do they know, they aren't retired railroad workers like Mr. Weaver...

 #86067  by Noel Weaver
 
efin98 wrote:Santa Fe Sucks, pay no mind to Mr. Weaver. He prefers to dwell on his past and flame anybody who does not agree with him despite being entirely wrong. You aren't the first current railroader he has blasted for not agreeing with his view of reality.

You are entirely in the right and are supported by the accounts from officials at the scene who actually saw the switch was set in the wrong position and who are in a position to make the judgment. But what do they know, they aren't retired railroad workers like Mr. Weaver...
Feel better Mr. Findley????

 #86094  by O-6-O
 
I've read Mr Weavers postings in the past many times and don't find them
mindless flaming or what ever was said. His point I think is a good one.
There seems to be a lot of conclusions drawn about this accident before
all the facts are known and to accuse some crew before hand is not at all
fair. Remember it's easy for us on the sidelines to throw out opinions,
facts are much harder to come by. Lets be patient here.

STEAM ON
/--OOO-;--oo--oo-

 #86113  by Santa Fe Sucks
 
I don't claim to know the facts. I only stated that the easiest way to prevent this event would have been to line the switch back for the main--no signals, new rules, or anything else. Apparently this is a very radical and controversial statement. It is not, however, prejudgement.

If that's disgusting to you... I'm frankly at a loss of words. And since I'm in no position of authority in any way dealing with this event, why does it matter to you? It shouldn't, unless you want to start a flame war.

 #86139  by efin98
 
Fine, it's too early to point fingers. However the more information that is coming out, the more it is directly pointing to the crew who were supposed to set the switch.

The New York Times is reporting the FRA is looking into some changes as a direct result of the accident. Also in the article is an attempt to defraud the railroad by people from outside the town, it didn't take long for the scum of society to come around...

 #86155  by Noel Weaver
 
Without trying to upset somebody with these remarks, I will offer an idea
as to what I think should be done to hopefully prevent another unfortunate
accident like this one.
In unsignaled territory, all hand thrown switches that are not protected by
signals will be approached at a speed which will permit stopping the
movement short of the switch if it is not properly lined.
Will it hit the railroads hard? Yes, of course but it could save lives.
Can we imagine if this particular line had an Amtrak train running on it and
the Amtrak train was involved in this? I have worked a number of
different lines that are similar to this one, trains running up to 50 MPH with
no switch protection. My experience in Georgetown, Connecticut in 1970
was bad enough but it could have been much worse.
We are in an era where unfortunately, there is a lot of crime and of course
the railroads are hit with their share. They can't possibly have enough
police officers to protect every corner of their property at all times.
I assume with this being in South Carolina that this line was originally part
of the Southern. I do not know about the Southern but on the New Haven,
New York Central, Pennsylvania and Long Island in particular, distant
switch signals were quite common in years past and they go back many
years. I have employee timetables of lines that were abandoned in the
1930's with distant switch signals. Had the former New Haven's Danbury
Branch had distant switch signals at Georgetown, the accident that I was
involved in 1970 would have been avoided.
This is one of the reasons that the union that I was and still am a member
of is always on record as opposed to removal of any signal system. The
Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers has opposed this kind of stuff all
over the country and occasionally, the signals stay.
Even a obsolete seventy five year old semaphore signal could save lives
and property damage.
Noel Weaver