• Francis Scott Key Bridge - Class I Impact

  • For topics on Class I and II passenger and freight operations more general in nature and not specifically related to a specific railroad with its own forum.
For topics on Class I and II passenger and freight operations more general in nature and not specifically related to a specific railroad with its own forum.

Moderator: Jeff Smith

  by ExCon90
 
Particularly considering that women are generally regarded as being graceful in their appearance, I would agree that "it" is the appropriate pronoun. (Just before we get back on topic, I have a question about containers: Before I retired, when I was involved in container movements, a marine container was required to be sturdy enough to support the weight of five fully loaded containers stacked above it. I can see containers stacked on deck nine or more high -- have strength requirements been increased, or have existing computer programs been modified to regulate the placement of lightly loaded containers on top of specific stacks?)

As to the bussing, based on looking at a map, wouldn't the transit time by bus via the Delmarva peninsula, involving two bridges, and avoiding DC, be shorter than by rail, in addition to other factors mentioned above?
  by eolesen
 
I think the strength requirements have increased, as ten high seems common on the newer container ships. They're lashed to the catwalk frames and pinned within the stack, which offers some bracing that wouldn't normally wouldn't be present on land.

And yes, they do load heavier cans deeper in the holds to keep the center of gravity low.

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  by RandallW
 
"Fully loaded" is an interesting term. For the stacking standards, I'm going to assume that's by weight, but many commodities will fill the volume of a container well before they approach even 1/2 the weight limit of the container. Note also that the maximum weight of a 20' container is the same as the maximum weight of a 45' container, and that containers themselves are getting lighter (so they can carry heavier commodities within the same maximum weight and/or to reduce fuel use to transport the empty container).

(Oddly enough, during the early phases of the pandemic, insufficient 20' containers were available to export agricultural products from the USA to China, which meant that moving the quantity of heavy product that normally took 2 x 20' contains suddenly required 3 x 40' containers because the empty weight of the 40' box is greater than that of the 20' box and the product hit the weight limits of the container before it filled the 20' container. Since ships sell space by 20' units, this meant paying for 3x the shipping capacity for the same amount of product.)
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Welcome to www.maritime.net; the domain name appears to be open at present.

What I think we all can realize with a review of this topic, is simply the volume of business ocean shipping represents. While much, and likely the majority, of the containers move to their final destination by highway, it certainly shows to the "rails" just how much potential there is, with something called reliable service (doesn't need to be the fastest), to divert "just a few" of these containers to the rails.

True, the vessels resemble a "tub with a motor", and like Mr. Ex-Con apparently also holds, are not worthy of being addressed in the feminine gender, such as was the ss United States, which reportedly attained at trials a speed of 38kts, and was designed to be "beautiful". But they do what they are intended to do - handle some 20,000 TEU's of Containers on one sailing.

Incidentally, the measurement TEU is misleading, as such represents a 20ft container. While such are still out there (that's what all my Niece's stuff - including an upright piano - fit into when she "reloed" to Australia eight years ago), the more common 40ft is 2 TEU's and the 53ft is 2.7. But still, a mighty big load.

So all told, even after the Key disaster recedes from "Page 1", let us move forth here with periodically reviewing maritime affairs, as I believe they are "hand in glove" with those of the industry we gather here to discuss.
  by eolesen
 
I'm sure we will be structuraldemolition.net over the next month or three as well....

Discussing adjacent spaces within transportation and logistics seems to be a reasonable accommodation.



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  by Jeff Smith
 
ADMIN: This topic should cover, as the title implies, Class I impacts due to the Key Bridge collapse. It should NOT discuss causes, demolition, or reconstruction, or reopening of the channel.
  by scratchyX1
 
actually bridging (get it?, ow ) rails and the FSK bridge, I know that it was under construction as a 2 lane auto tunnel, when the price came out to be too high, so it was rebid as a bridge.
I have recollection of finding an article at Enoch Pratt library * late 90s that said it started it's life as a proposed freight rail tunnel, to get those trains out of downtown. Does anyone else remember something along those lines?

* it's the Central Baltimore library, and got used as a dumping ground for various infrastructure documents for the state.
  by STrRedWolf
 
scratchyX1 wrote: Tue Apr 02, 2024 1:12 pm actually bridging (get it?, ow ) rails and the FSK bridge, I know that it was under construction as a 2 lane auto tunnel, when the price came out to be too high, so it was rebid as a bridge.
I have recollection of finding an article at Enoch Pratt library * late 90s that said it started it's life as a proposed freight rail tunnel, to get those trains out of downtown. Does anyone else remember something along those lines?

* it's the Central Baltimore library, and got used as a dumping ground for various infrastructure documents for the state.
That kinda gets into an idea I had was to tunnel under the Patapsco River between Locust Point and Lazaretto Point. Right now all rail traffic has to go under Howard Street, around Penn Station to the north, and then over to Bayview where two yards (NS & CSX) are, and a few spurs to go down to the Port of Baltimore and a rail yard there in Lazaretto Point. With the Point-to-Point tunnel, you shorten a ton of rail mileage and potentially can hand off the Howard Street Tunnel to MTA Maryland for sinking the Light Rail underground.

Too bad it would be more expensive than rebuilding the bridge...
  by RandallW
 
The MV Dali didn't compete with any US railroad as it was prohibited from carrying any containers between US ports due to the Jones Act. While there are US container ships that can transport containers between US ports, there are only 22 of them (as of 2022) and they mostly serve CONUS to Alaska, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico routes. There are a few barge services as well (one of them serves a weekly Norfolk-Baltimore-Philadelphia route), but they also handle traffic that are not time sensitive.

Also note that the 48' and 53' containers are, with the exception of some parts of China that export heavily to the US (including "one trip" containers made in China for use in the USA), exclusively in domestic service in North America, so except for some trans-Pacific sailings, ships are only carrying containers smaller than the maximum length containers carried by trains and trucks in North America.

I don't that railroads are unreliable for container traffic -- they do have problems when consignees do not remove containers from their yards, but I'm under the impression that is the only real problem they have that isn't a force mejeure kind of issue getting containers between yards as advertised.
  by eolesen
 
CSX now has a dedicated container shuttle service running between NYC and BAL. Started up earlier this week.

That'll help keep some of the drayage drivers working, not sure what the longshoreman and stevedores will do.

Based on what the ACOE posted today as an overview of next steps, that shuttle will probably be running for a few months.


Image

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  by STrRedWolf
 
eolesen wrote: Fri Apr 05, 2024 6:24 pm CSX now has a dedicated container shuttle service running between NYC and BAL. Started up earlier this week.

That'll help keep some of the drayage drivers working, not sure what the longshoreman and stevedores will do.

Based on what the ACOE posted today as an overview of next steps, that shuttle will probably be running for a few months.


Image

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https://www.cnbc.com/2024/04/04/new-csx ... ments.html
“This is a result of good cooperation with the International Longshoremen’s Association, the largest union of maritime workers in North America, and the Port of Baltimore,” said (Mark Schmidt, vice president and general manager of Ports America Chesapeake). “Our labor has stayed the same. What we are doing on the waterside to help keep ILA labor employed is training our water crews, like crane operators, clerking staff and some dock bosses land skills.”
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
NBC News as well as other sources, report that the containers aboard the m/v Dali are now being transloaded to barges and returned to Port of Baltimore. Presumably they will be further loaded (by ILA members) aboard the CSX and NS "shuttles", as well as of course, highway vehicles, and moved to other facilities or their final destination.

Removal of the containers will enable the cutting crews to better remove the bridge's truss from the vessel, as well as lessening its draft to have it towed back to a dock to allow marine surveyors to determine its fate (my bet: broken up.; "supply and demand" and It's a "jinxed ship").
  by STrRedWolf
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2024 7:14 am NBC News as well as other sources, report that the containers aboard the m/v Dali are now being transloaded to barges and returned to Port of Baltimore. Presumably they will be further loaded (by ILA members) aboard the CSX and NS "shuttles", as well as of course, highway vehicles, and moved to other facilities or their final destination.

Removal of the containers will enable the cutting crews to better remove the bridge's truss from the vessel, as well as lessening its draft to have it towed back to a dock to allow marine surveyors to determine its fate (my bet: broken up.; "supply and demand" and It's a "jinxed ship").
Since it was being sent out to Sri Lanka, it's likely being put on CSX/NS shuttles and sent to other ports for loading and sending. Still, better the engines cut out while "accessible" vs out on the high seas.

But to the ship itself? Likely impounded for the foreseeable future. Until a full inspection is released, scrapping it is up in the air.

That said... the fine pro-trains people at Well, There's Your Problem released a special episode:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4q7K2rfG3w
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Still, better the engines cut out while "accessible" vs out on the high seas.
Not sure about that one; the hull was presumably "sound", and there would have nothing about with which to collide.
STrRedWolf wrote: But to the ship itself? Likely impounded for the foreseeable future. Until a full inspection is released, scrapping it is up in the air.
Surely agree that the vessel will be impounded for a long time while the multitude of claims wind their way through the Judiciary - and with lawyers in no rush to settle matters (Settle? the meter gets "high sticked").

A maritime "photo op" coming up to see an unloaded container vessel, as I think they are simultaneously loaded and unloaded when berthed.

https://www.quora.com/Do-container-ship ... l-unfilled

But empty vessels do sail - even if their owners try to avoid such:

https://images.app.goo.gl/9WoNq4Ape6k73Yrf9
  by toolmaker
 
I read about the containers being removed and sent on through the system but is anyone inspecting the containers for damage as they pass on to another ship or will the end user be standing there with crossed fingers hoping their shipment is in good condition?
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