Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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jstolberg
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Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Post by jstolberg » Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:37 pm

The Metro-North Railroad is seriously considering buying double-decker coaches for its Harlem and Hudson commuter lines, in a move to ease overcrowding on a rail network that routinely runs standing-room-only trains during rush hour.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/nyregion/16double.html?_r=1
Let the discussion begin.

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shadyjay
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Re: Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Post by shadyjay » Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:08 pm

Okay... two things caught my eye here:

Unlike most train cars currently used by the railroad, bilevel coaches cannot run by themselves; they have no motors and must be propelled by a locomotive. But Grand Central’s tracks have hundreds of gaps where the electrified third rail abruptly ends, which could cause the locomotive to stall.

A solution would be to use two locomotives, one on either end, to ensure the train never loses contact with the third rail, but that approach would be expensive.



How would this be any different than the present push-pull train configuration? There's just one locomotive on those trains (at the north end) and it seems to work just fine. So I can't see needing 2 locomotives on each train being a deal-breaker.


This month, Connecticut transit officials said they had decided not to buy custom-designed bar cars. Instead, the officials pledged to eventually retrofit seven of the 80 new cars into bar cars.


Makes sense to me. Nothing needs to be fancy - just a bar in the middle and some lounge type seating on both sides. Were the present M-2 bar cars originally custom-designed or were they done in house? No need to re-invent the wheel, here!

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Re: Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Post by M1 9147 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 9:29 pm

They already have too much surplus of cars that came from West of Hudson Pool operated by New Jersey Transit. Adding Bilevel cars defeats the sense unless more locomotives are ordered. And with that, then either M3's will have to be retired, or that to replace the M4's. Bilevels since MN has the Shoreliner's built by Bombardier, it makes sense to get a model of the Comet 6ML already in use by NJT, and AMT. We shall see! Anyways, all the Shoreliner 1's are being rebuilt by Bombardier as of now in spurts.
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Re: Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Post by DutchRailnut » Sun Aug 15, 2010 10:35 pm

If its 3x2 seating it will be Disastrous, if its 2x 2 seating great.
As for only compatible with Harlem.Hudson, I think thats a mistake.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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truck6018
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Re: Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Post by truck6018 » Sun Aug 15, 2010 11:37 pm

What would the weight factor be? Currently there is a maximum of 7 coaches in a consist. Assuming the bi-levels are heavier what are the maximum number of cars that would be able to be in a consist? Five? Six? If that's the case, would it be worth while spending the $$$ to resolve the issues with getting through Park Ave tunnel?

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Re: Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Post by metrony » Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:17 am

I see Metro-North doing this way down the line like at least another decade or two, but now it doesn't make sense. They have too many coaches and not enough locomotives. Metro-North just got WoH coaches and they're rebuilding the end to end door ones.

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Re: Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Post by DutchRailnut » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:15 am

truck6018 wrote:What would the weight factor be? Currently there is a maximum of 7 coaches in a consist. Assuming the bi-levels are heavier what are the maximum number of cars that would be able to be in a consist? Five? Six? If that's the case, would it be worth while spending the $$$ to resolve the issues with getting through Park Ave tunnel?


current limit of 7 cars to genny is for HEP not for weight.
For New Bi-levels they concider new electric powerheads, two to a train, but currently everything is still only in planning stage.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Re: Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Post by Jeff Smith » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:32 am

They were speaking hypothetically of electric only power. I could see them using that on the Harlem, which is mostly electrified, but not on the Hudson, where they'd be limited to south of CH (unless of course they do eventually electrify to Peekskill as envisioned.
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Re: Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Post by truck6018 » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:37 am

DutchRailnut wrote: current limit of 7 cars to genny is for HEP not for weight.
For New Bi-levels they concider new electric powerheads, two to a train, but currently everything is still only in planning stage.


Thanks for the clarification and yes, I understand it's only in the planning stage. In railroad years, it could be a while.

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Re: Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Post by DutchRailnut » Mon Aug 16, 2010 7:43 am

try to picture it as a TGV bi level, only slower and uglier ;-)
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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Nasadowsk
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Re: Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Post by Nasadowsk » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:31 am

Third rail powerheads? Fun fun getting that kind of current pickup.

While we're talking fanstasy, why not consider motor-trail setups, i.e. Zurich S Bahn, etc...

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Re: Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Post by Wayside Observer » Mon Aug 16, 2010 9:41 am

I'll believe only when I seem them in operation. There seems to be quite a bit of "planning" by both MTA and CDOT, with little to show for.

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Re: Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Post by 7express » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:07 pm

jstolberg wrote:
The Metro-North Railroad is seriously considering buying double-decker coaches for its Harlem and Hudson commuter lines, in a move to ease overcrowding on a rail network that routinely runs standing-room-only trains during rush hour.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/16/nyregion/16double.html?_r=1
Let the discussion begin.





Theirs a reason there's not bi-livels already on Metro North:
They won't fit in the Park Ave Tunnel.

Unless there going to buy them for the Wassaic shuttle and the Poughkeepsie late night shuttle, but that would be a terrible waste

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Re: Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Post by DutchRailnut » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:09 pm

Read the Article, the Bi-levels will be powered by DC only powerheads and the trains are for Harlem and Hudson electric zones only.
These are possible replacements for the M-3's
They are not for Genesis or other Dualmode powered trains.
They are not for New Haven line.
If Conductors are in charge, why are they promoted to be Engineer???

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7express
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Re: Metro-North Considering Bilevel Trains

Post by 7express » Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:30 pm

I thought Bi-livels had clearence issues for the tunnel? Oh well, guess I was wrong. I always liked riding the bi-livels on LIRR, I wouldn't mind then on the Hudson or Harlem if I ever go to Croton, White Plains or Southeast.

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