Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

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ctclark1
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:46 am

Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Post by ctclark1 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:13 am

As someone who works at a location where fencing for personal safety (both employees and guests) is of utmost importance, I can tell you that it doesn't matter the fence, someone who is determined to get through it will, whether by cutting or climbing or smashing... If someone is determined to trespass on that bridge, they will.

Besides, no matter how impressive the fence you put up around that bridge is, there will always be openings at the tracks, and someone will find them and walk their way in. Problem being the further back you place those fence openings the harder it is for someone who might get there to get off and out of the way before they get killed. Same goes for wildlife, which I'm sure was a concern as far as wanting to avoid trapping animals on the approaches to the bridges.

I'm also sure someone will bring up the possibility of placing movable gates at the approaches to the bridges, but where's your failsafe? Do you tie them into the signal system as if it was a Control Point? Nearest signals are over a mile away on both sides and they're currently both Automatic Block Signals (This is based on the 1999 Track Chart - Denton Corners Rd and Rt 436). If you convert them to Interlocked signals, that means the gates have to detect and open (and detect that they have in fact opened) when the train is almost two miles away (in the case of the one at Denton Cnrs), still allowing the determined trespasser who doesn't know anything about how the thing works to make their way onto the bridge and find themselves being chased by a train. (Oh, and the approach signals to these new absolutes would not be able to show anything higher than an approach aspect) The other option for the gates is requiring all trains to come to a near stop at the approach to the gates EVERY TIME to wait for them to open, which negates the point of the increases speed limit across the bridge.

There's no perfect answer, but more and bigger fencing won't really change much...

ctclark1
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:46 am

Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Post by ctclark1 » Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:55 pm

Moving off the bridge security for a moment, and onto the topic of "Future Tier Traffic"

I'm not sure of train symbols, but I occasionally catch an eastbound through Attica a little after 11pm, and I've noticed a few times when I catch it early enough that NS is using DPUs on it, something I've never seen around WNY, to be honest. Was this something that was discovered to be necessary now that the non-standard weight restrictions on cars have been removed with the new bridge (I'd assume due to grades such as the Attica Hill, which I believe is considered the "ruling grade" on the line)? Or have trains been combined to reduce traffic overall - are fewer long trains easier to manage than more short trains (thus also increasing overall train weight making DPUs necessary)?

johnpbarlow
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Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Post by johnpbarlow » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:25 am

The eb train that you see operating with DPU is the 310 Bellevue to Binghamton manifest train that hauls a lot of frac sand and other bulk commodities to Gang Mills yard, where some frac sand is set out for the Wellsboro & Corning RR, Lehigh RR at Sayre, & the HOST transload facility at Horseheads, and Binghamton for NS and NYSW transload facilities. And some frac sand, along with grain, is forwarded to the DL and NS transload at Scranton, as well. DPU operation of 310, while not rare, is not all that frequent. And on occasion, W10, effectively a 2nd section of 310 will operate as a separate train. And on occasion unit sand train (eg, 68N) will operate to one of the above destinations on the Southern Tier. When NS does run 310 with DPU, it can be a 25,000 ton monster up and over Attica Hill.

sd80mac
Posts: 1911
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:28 am
Location: Rochester, ny

Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Post by sd80mac » Tue Feb 19, 2019 2:18 pm

ctclark1 wrote:Moving off the bridge security for a moment, and onto the topic of "Future Tier Traffic"

I'm not sure of train symbols, but I occasionally catch an eastbound through Attica a little after 11pm, and I've noticed a few times when I catch it early enough that NS is using DPUs on it, something I've never seen around WNY, to be honest. Was this something that was discovered to be necessary now that the non-standard weight restrictions on cars have been removed with the new bridge (I'd assume due to grades such as the Attica Hill, which I believe is considered the "ruling grade" on the line)? Or have trains been combined to reduce traffic overall - are fewer long trains easier to manage than more short trains (thus also increasing overall train weight making DPUs necessary)?
If you have FB, join southern tier railfanning and you would be keep on top of current operating...

ctclark1
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:46 am

Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Post by ctclark1 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:30 pm

Thanks for the info. I don't come home around 11 as often as I used to, so it's only been a handful of times in the last few months, but I'd say luck of the draw has had DPUs on all but one of the times I've caught this train, and I thought I heard the rumble of the DPU set once or twice hearing the train from my balcony down the road.

Roscoe P. Coaltrain
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 5:01 pm

Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Post by Roscoe P. Coaltrain » Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:18 pm

sd80mac wrote: If you have FB, join southern tier railfanning and you would be keep on top of current operating...

Naw, I think when you have a niche hobby and are seeking info on niche area operations, places like this seem to be a better fit to host that discussion than the bloated, oversharing, arab spring-instigating, fake-news spewing, privacy-invading, burmease genocide-enabling, russia-infected big blue app. I fail to see how 300 billion people around the world getting all connected via fb has anything of value to offer to my rather niche hobby about a rather niche location. Unless all those new fb users from Mongolia really know a lot about NS operations in New York State. Let's learn (once again) how to share the nuggets of wheat without all the group-interest monetizing chaff.

CPSmith
Posts: 422
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:15 am

Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Post by CPSmith » Sun Apr 07, 2019 4:55 pm

Yup. We don't have a "like" button on rr.net, but this (if anything) deserves it.

:-D
peddle your shorts

BR&P
Posts: 4034
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:58 pm

Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Post by BR&P » Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:08 pm

+1 for me.

I realize times and technologies change, but it's sad to see the decline in activity on these pages. We sometimes go 2, 3 or even more days without a single new post on this forum. Yes, there is less railroad activity taking place than 50 years ago but we are not limited to what is happening today - we can discuss that AND what happened 100 years ago. Apparently this great site has been relegated to "branch line" status as traffic has been shifted to other places.
:(

TB Diamond
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Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:40 pm
Location: Rocky Mountains

Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Post by TB Diamond » Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:17 pm

Have never considered joining FB in the past and will never consider doing so in the future.
You can't go home again- Thomas Wolfe

Jeff Smith
Site Admin
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Location: MP 67.2 Georgia Southern Railway

Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Post by Jeff Smith » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:36 am

I for one, hope you all stay.
Next stop, Willoughby
~Jeff Smith (fka "Sarge") :: RAILROAD.NET Site Administrator/Co-Owner

sd80mac
Posts: 1911
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:28 am
Location: Rochester, ny

Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Post by sd80mac » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:52 am

Roscoe P. Coaltrain wrote:Naw, I think when you have a niche hobby and are seeking info on niche area operations, places like this seem to be a better fit to host that discussion than the bloated, oversharing, arab spring-instigating, fake-news spewing, privacy-invading, burmease genocide-enabling, russia-infected big blue app. I fail to see how 300 billion people around the world getting all connected via fb has anything of value to offer to my rather niche hobby about a rather niche location. Unless all those new fb users from Mongolia really know a lot about NS operations in New York State. Let's learn (once again) how to share the nuggets of wheat without all the group-interest monetizing chaff.

you're WAY EXGGRATED!!!! Of course, it depends on EACH GROUP. there's a bunch of group like that.. and there is bunch of GOOD ONES!! OBVIOUSLY you NEVER tried 4 Groups that are ENTIRELY cover Southern Tier (one group do include Bridge line and Sunbury line and they're relevant to ST)! DONT ASSUME and MAKE JUDGEMENT against certain groups in FB without see them FOR YOURSELF. you're welcome to join to ANY GROUPS and you're free to leave if it's like what you described. I had left group like that. NO BIGGIE no hard feeling... We even have few NS workers in these groups I am in... Good sources to pass around IN THESE GROUPS.

There is a guy in this thread WHO is in other group and he posted damn good valuable information on DAILY BASIS!!! (thank you for doing that and you know who you are)... PITY to you, Roscoe P Coaltrain, the fake name, who think that guy's daily info is worthless fake news !!!!

3 groups that represent ST... almost 700, 1.1k and 2.2k member... hmm... where are 299,999,999,000 people in these group? get real... stop twisting non sense LAME excuses like these liberal and democraps...

bloated, oversharing, arab spring-instigating, fake-news spewing, privacy-invading, burmease genocide-enabling, russia-infected big blue app... WTF???? these you described aren't found in these groups I am in...

Arab spring instigating... I'm not sure what you are imply... but sound racist to me..



YOUR LOSS!!!

AND HECK!!! I'M here!!! Just because I am in FB groups, it doesn't means I have to quit this group. We got some members from here who are in several groups I am in... AGAIN same kind of good people here and in these groups and YOUR LOSS. Just stay in your 4 walled room with one source. I'm out there to LEARN more stuffs than you do and getting good head-up!

where are the head-up in this forum? very scare of these posting of REGULAR trains.... I don't meant these special only like heritage units. it should include regular ones for head-up and this forum is not the TYPE you're looking for TRAFFIC pattern on southern tier.

Even through there's few guys that you described are in this forum and you're here... GO FIGURE! GEEZ insane crazy non-sense response....

BR&P
Posts: 4034
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:58 pm

Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Post by BR&P » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:11 am

Too bad this site has so few emojies. I used to have a great one for "throwing gas on the fire" :-D :-D :-D

(not that I myself would EVER instigate, mind you..... :wink: )

nydepot
Posts: 2206
Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2004 7:50 am
Contact:

Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Post by nydepot » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:11 am

All of that data and information is completely unsearchable. Good luck finding that paragraph someone wrote on the Erie Attica depot last summer. You could scroll hundreds if not thousands of times as FB loads another small group of posts as you scroll down. Burn through your lunch on your PC. Forget on your phone.

So much has been talked about here and other forums of its kind. Simple search up in the right hand corner.

While using it for current railfanning would be great, those groups that post old photos and content about local rail history - it's gone forever.
sd80mac wrote:There is a guy in this thread WHO is in other group and he posted damn good valuable information on DAILY BASIS!!!

Mike Stellpflug
Posts: 342
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 9:31 am
Location: Hemlock, NY

Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Post by Mike Stellpflug » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:56 pm

nydepot wrote:All of that data and information is completely unsearchable. Good luck finding that paragraph someone wrote on the Erie Attica depot last summer. You could scroll hundreds if not thousands of times as FB loads another small group of posts as you scroll down. Burn through your lunch on your PC. Forget on your phone.

So much has been talked about here and other forums of its kind. Simple search up in the right hand corner.

While using it for current railfanning would be great, those groups that post old photos and content about local rail history - it's gone forever.
sd80mac wrote:There is a guy in this thread WHO is in other group and he posted damn good valuable information on DAILY BASIS!!!
Not really. I just searched "Avon, NY" in the Erie Lackawanna Facebook group and a treasure trove of photos and info came up. Just got to know how to use the groups. I was loathe to start a Facebook account, but that is the place to be these days if you want to know what is going on as well as getting historical info. The Anthracite Railroads Historical Society Facebook group is phenomenal!

ctclark1
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:46 am

Re: Portageville Bridge Replacement, Future Tier Traffic

Post by ctclark1 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:25 pm

I cannot tell you how many different RR related FB groups I've tried to join over the years (it really isn't many, actually, but really I didn't keep a count so i'm not lying, I can't tell you), most of them at the behest of someone here when I request information or knowledge and someone invariably says "You should join this group on FB, they have tons of information"... They pretty much all appear to be closed groups, and not a single one of them has accepted my request to join, so I gave up. If they want to be so elite on FB that I'm not allowed to join for one random reason or another (do I not have enough train pictures? is it because my hobbies and interests aren't overflowing with train related items? do I need to wear the old-school striped vest and hat in my profile picture?) then I'm not sure I actually want to join. I'll stick around here, where I've been for years, and in the occasions where I have a train related question, I'll ask it. If I have some weird back-storied knowledge that I either got from here or an outside source, and that happens to be a topic of discussion, I'll chime in. But mostly, I'll lurk and read and learn. Just like I have been for years.

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