Fleeted commuter trains from GCT

Does anyone remember when zone fares were introduced in the New York commuting area? And was that the same time as they began the practice of having a rush-hour train serve only the stations in one zone, running nonstop from 125th St. to the first station in the outermost zone, with the following train leaving about 3 minutes later and running nonstop to the first station in the next (closer) zone, and so forth, until the last train ran cleanup, serving all stations to the end, after which the whole pattern was repeated until rush hour was over? That always seemed to me like a great way to provide express service while ensuring almost foolproof revenue protection, since there could be no overriding of tickets--I think Metro North does it to this day.

Back when I was a teenaged railfan in the 1960s I used to ride down to GCT on Saturdays from North White Plains. I used to try and make the 1:15 PM train back to North White because it was the through train to Chatham and had reclining seat coaches assigned. It was quite a novelty to tilt back my seat and watch as Woodlawn and Hartsdale went by at 60 mph. And what a smooth ride!

There was no penalty fare in those days and if I was running late I bought my ticket on board. One Saturday this happened and when I handed the conductor my fare he told me, "It's gone up. It's $1.25 now." I was surprised. The fare from GCT to North White Plains had been $1.16 for many years and a nine cent increase seemed like a lot to me. And being I was about thirteen-years-old at the time I was lucky I had an extra nine cents on me! The conductor told me Central had rounded off all the fares to eliminate much of the change-making. When did this happen? I'm almost positive it was in the winter of 1963-1964 and probably early 1964. I think that was the start of the zone fares.

That was a bit earlier than the start of the zone rush hour schedules. The zone rush hour schedules began on the Harlem Division in February 1965. I remember after the changeover during rush hour the destination signs at the track gates in GCT would have huge letters corresponding to the zone the train was bound for -- e.g. A or B -- in addition to the departure time and station stops. That was supposed to make it easy for commuters in a hurry to spot their train. It was pretty effective, too. Below is a news article announcing the new scheduling:



And yes you're right, the practice was expanded to the Hudson Division, later to the New Haven Line and maintained through Penn Central and Conrail right up to the present day. The letters, however, are no longer used.

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Thanks for digging that out; it's just what I was looking for. I vaguely remembered when it happened but couldn't pin down the year even approximately. I commuted from Fleetwood in 1970-71; there were 3 trains in the AM rush hour, about 20 minutes apart. You could see an 8- or 10-car train deadheading from NY, crossing over at Mt. Vernon, and heading up the stub track to Fleetwood; when the doors opened the train was empty. It left Fleetwood about half full, completely filled up at Mt. Vernon, and then a straight shot to 125th St. A lot of engineers didn't pull down the front shade, so I did a lot of head-end riding. One of the best commutes I've ever had.

On the Hudson, we have some outbound rush hour trains with first stop Beacon. They've come quite a way since this notion took hold. What's the furthest-out first stop on the Harlem? Chappaqua? [I'm too lazy to look it up online ]

Back in the NYC/PC days,Brewster(Put Jct)trains would run Express to White Plains,stop at North White(Holland Ave) for the power swap
then all stops to Brewster,some trains had connecting RDC's to Dover Plains.
Kenscio and Mt Pleasant had selected trains stopping during AM/PM rush but were Flag stops mostly
When Chatham still had passenger service,express to White Plains,power swap At N.White(Holland Ave)then semi express to
Brewster,then all stops to Chatham.

This practice today is somewhat more common on the commuter lines than when it was pioneered by the New York Central. I think it began at least to some extant before 1965. I have some old River Division timetables from the mid 1950's when they were still in the passenger business there and at least a couple of examples were followed there. As for the New Haven they only turned trains back at New Rochelle and Rye for the most part although of course they had lay up yards at both New Rochelle and Port Chester until about 1959 or so when they moved all the stuff to Stamford. Like a lot of other moves the New York Central made during this period fleeted commuter trains was a very good move. Fleeting on the New Haven really took off after Penn Central took over
and made some sense of the passenger operations between New Haven and New York.
Noel Weaver

ExCon90 wrote:Thanks for digging that out; it's just what I was looking for. I vaguely remembered when it happened but couldn't pin down the year even approximately. I commuted from Fleetwood in 1970-71; there were 3 trains in the AM rush hour, about 20 minutes apart. You could see an 8- or 10-car train deadheading from NY, crossing over at Mt. Vernon, and heading up the stub track to Fleetwood; when the doors opened the train was empty. It left Fleetwood about half full, completely filled up at Mt. Vernon, and then a straight shot to 125th St. A lot of engineers didn't pull down the front shade, so I did a lot of head-end riding. One of the best commutes I've ever had.

You're very welcome.

Were they running the ex-NYC 4500 (PC 1000) and/or ex-NYC 4600-4700 (PC 1100) MUs on those Fleetwood trains back in 1970-71? As I recall the M1As didn't start arriving until late 1970. In the 1960s I used to see the MU cars layed up at VO on the weekends. About three or four train sets, mostly the elderly 4200 and 4300 series heavyweight MUs but by the mid-1960s there would be a 4500 train and, less often, a train made up of 4600/4700 cars in the yard too. I always guessed that the Fleetwood trains were supplied by the cars at VO.

Btw I looked at an NYC ETT I have, No. 12 from Oct. 28, 1962. This is just before everything started changing.

Back then there were two morning trains originating at Fleetwood. No. 524 at 8:00 AM and 536 at 8:12 AM. I note 524 originated at Fleetwood, ran to Mount Vernon on Track 6, and is shown stopping at Mt. Vernon and, oddly, at Melrose. It shows 138th Street and 125th Street as 'Discharge Only' stops. (524 operated a few minutes behind No. 520 an all-stops Bronx local.) No. 524 arrived at GCT at 8:33 AM.

No. 536 departed Fleetwood at 8:12 AM, operated to Mount Vernon on Track 6, and then ran nonstop to 125th Street and arrived at GCT at 8:46 AM.

Those are the only two trains I see originating at Fleetwood in 1962. In the evening, westbound, the 1962 schedule doesn't show any trains terminating at Fleetwood. There are four trains terminating at Mt. Vernon and four more trains terminating at Crestwood.

Fleetwood was a good place to originate or terminate a train with track 6. I had a regular job out of New York at the start up of Metro North that in the AM rush ran a local to Mount Vernon and turned at VO on track 6 and in the PM rush it ran an express out of New York that only stopped at Mount Vernon and Fleetwood (on track 6) before turning back with deadhead equipment to Grand Central Terminal.
Noel Weaver

My trains in 1970-71 were mostly 46- and 4700's. I much preferred the 4500's, but they're mostly not what I got. I was gone from the New York area before the M1A's arrived.
The "oddly, at Melrose" is interesting. I sometimes think there could be a thread devoted to seemingly weird stops or days of operation in timetables and the Official Guide that make you wonder "now what could have been the reason for that?"

Noel Weaver wrote:Fleetwood was a good place to originate or terminate a train with track 6. I had a regular job out of New York at the start up of Metro North that in the AM rush ran a local to Mount Vernon and turned at VO on track 6 and in the PM rush it ran an express out of New York that only stopped at Mount Vernon and Fleetwood (on track 6) before turning back with deadhead equipment to Grand Central Terminal.
Noel Weaver

And we OS'd you at JO [Woodlawn for those not familiar], and lined you up for track 6 at VO. I was just a casual observer though.

ExCon90 wrote:My trains in 1970-71 were mostly 46- and 4700's. I much preferred the 4500's, but they're mostly not what I got. I was gone from the New York area before the M1A's arrived...

I grew up riding on NY Central 4500 series MUs. In fact I think the first train I ever rode was a train of 4500s. I remember being amazed at the big headlight and the big windows. In the sixties when the 4600s began arriving I liked them better -- in the summer anyway -- because I thought they had colder A/C.

What was the routing for a westbound (or northbound) train terminating in Fleetwood on Track 6? Did they platform in Mount Vernon on Tracks 1 or 3? Since the trains tying up at Fleetwood were normally making Mt Vernon as their first stop did they crossover to Track 2 or 4 before arriving at Mt. Vernon?

Noel would probably have the definitive answer, but my recollection was they were sent up track 3 all the way to VO, then crossed over there to run up to Fleetwood. Track 1 at Woodlawn became a westbound track during the AM rush, and track 2 became eastbound during the PM rush. So everything eastbound in the AM ran track 3 to Woodlawn.

Thanks. I wasn't sure if back in the Central days they could crossover from 3-to-6 at Mount Vernon.

I know Metro-North uses 1-2-4 inbound in the morning (Central used east/west and I think MNR uses north/south) and 3-1-2 outbound in the evening. I have stood at the front door of M3s on Harlem Line trains going south in late afternoon and there is a parade of trains going south on Track 4 below Woodlawn. That goes back to the 1950s I think.

I read several old news articles in which the New Haven's Pat McGinnis spoke at commuter meetings at which a chief complaint was late New Haven rush hour trains. McGinnis said that New York Central had agreed to make Tracks 1 and 2 bi-directional between Woodlawn and Mott Haven and that this would help keep rush hour trains on-time. That it would provide three inbound tracks in the morning and three outbound tracks in the afternoon.

NY Times 21 Jan 1964 p35 says a one-year experiment will start 1 Feb-- zone fares (for monthlies, anyway) at and south of Tarrytown and White Plains North. A monthly to GCT from any station in the city limits (including 125th St) would be $23. Irvington and Tarrytown were in the same zone ($31), unlike later.

Don't think the article says whether one-way fares were zoned then too.

Most likely zones extended to Poughkeepsie and Pawling a year later.