Fixed Signal Aspects at East Gladstone

Okay, here's a question on how the track signal logic works at East Gladstone in the west direction. This fixed signal is the last westward fixed signal on the branch.

From what I've seen, there are two types of "proceed" signals that trains can get here: an approach or a restricting. Trains that are routed directly through the signal (without getting a stop) get an approach, but trains that are held at that signal with a stop displayed get a restricting when the dispatcher allows them to proceed west.

My question is: how does the track circuit logic work here? What is the factor that enables that fixed signal to display one aspect over another?

As a side note, I'm just asking purely from a curiosity standpoint. There really is no speed differential in the operation of a train with either of the proceed signal aspects here. I do believe that the cab signals at this location in the west direction are dropped to restricting regardless of what the fixed signal says.

Nick, multiple factors involved here: block repeaters/line circuits, switch positions ahead(if applicable)(I don't know what the next interlocking west of here is, and if 562 rules are in effect over the route), and what the status of the signal west of the one in question. If it's the same route each time, it's most likely if he has the next signal ahead displayed, or if your train is following someone/or the dispatcher displays a call-on to keep things moving.

It's Rule 261 here with all fixed signals. There is also no signal west of this signal, only an "End ABS" sign (or is it ATC... I can't remember.) So thus, you get an "Approach" or "Restricting" to the sign. Also, as far as dispatching is concerned, it is the same route each time (westward to the sign.) The first switch isn't until after you exit signalled territory within the yard and all of the switches there are hand thrown switches.

Based on the above description, the only reason I can think of for Restricting rather than Approach would be if a preceding movement into the yard has not yet cleared the sign. When this occurs (Stop clearing up to Restricting), are you in a position to see whether that's the case?

^^^This. Something ahead of the signal is downgrading it from Approach to Restricting.

OportRailfan wrote:^^^This. Something ahead of the signal is downgrading it from Approach to Restricting.

As far as I can see from my vantage point, the train has cleared the sign (it is held at stop for a while until the train exits signalled territory.) It could be that something outside of signalled territory within the yard is making the signal display Restricting.... perhaps a derail or swtich is not yet set when the signal is given?

Thanks for all of your comments and ideas. I enjoy learning more in depth on how signals work.

Oh, wait, I just think I figured it out.... cancel my last post.

There is a crossing right after the signal but before you exit signalled territory (a non-gated/lights and bells only crossing.) A train being held at the signal would have already passed the activation point for that railroad crossing. Thus, a train getting a "proceed" sginal would get a Restricting instead of an Approach so that they can proceed extra carefully/slowly through the crossing to ensure it is properly activated and that it is clear. That signal must only display an "Approach" when the railroad crossing is activated. That must be it. The crossing is interlocked with the home signal there.

This can be seen elsewhere on Transit and other railroads. You get a "Restricting" to proceed through a signal to allow proper time for the crossing to activate.

Most westbound trains will get an Approach at CP East Gladstone (CP because it is only controlled signals with no switches, derails, movable bridges, etc). The Approach signal governs movement between that signal and the "END AUTO BLOCK" sign located at the eastward home signal at CP East Gladstone. West of the EAB sign all moves must be made at restricted speed. In that is the possibility that there could be some need for a train to stop right at the EAB sign, hence the Approach signal. I have personally never encountered a Restricting going west at East Gladstone, however, I have been told that it will display restricting if one of the hand operated switches on the east end of the yard is reversed.

Sirsonic wrote:Most westbound trains will get an Approach at CP East Gladstone (CP because it is only controlled signals with no switches, derails, movable bridges, etc). The Approach signal governs movement between that signal and the "END AUTO BLOCK" sign located at the eastward home signal at CP East Gladstone. West of the EAB sign all moves must be made at restricted speed. In that is the possibility that there could be some need for a train to stop right at the EAB sign, hence the Approach signal. I have personally never encountered a Restricting going west at East Gladstone, however, I have been told that it will display restricting if one of the hand operated switches on the east end of the yard is reversed.

Hmm, interesting. Thanks Sirsonic! It is interesting that something outside of signalled territory would affect the aspects displayed within signalled territory. You don't really see that too often.

I still wonder if the crossing there is interlocked with the signal as well and as a result affects aspects displayed.

That crossing has no effect on what signal is displayed at CP East Gladstone. Like was already said it has to do with the position of the hand throw switch west of the signal.

JPG76 wrote:That crossing has no effect on what signal is displayed at CP East Gladstone. Like was already said it has to do with the position of the hand throw switch west of the signal.

Got it. All the times I've seen the "Restricting" signal, it was for Train 433 after the first westbound MidTOWN Train (6431) had just done its eastbound X move to East Gladstone so to yard onto Yard Track 2 North from the east end. That makes sense: the dispatcher is allowing 433 to proceed west when the block ahead of them is clear, but before the switches on the east end of the yard are returned to normal.