• First comes Chump Based Fare Collection Then Turnstiles

  • Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.
Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

  by Kelly&Kelly
The MTA held a press conference in Grand Central today exhibiting a pair of new-age cyber LIRR turnstiles.

It seems that fare evasion is becoming such a costly Long Island pastime that the State has decided to at least talk about it. Yeah, they're talking about turnstiles. But what they are really saying is labor savings. Turnstiles don't get paid. They don't get pensions. And there's a crisis here we've gotta manage!

The MTA has suggested a "soft transition" to automated fare collection, starting with "gating certain stations during the rush hours". And to fuel the fire, if $24 million in annual fare evasion isn't too big a problem, the MTA also recommended a "educational approach" to replace the "criminal approach" to fighting fare thieves. So if you don't want to pay, that's okay -- but you really should though. No more IOU's or 1870s. Just some education and understanding.

So as this new Chump Based Fare Collection dis-enforcement policy produces more and more fare evasion, and everybody but the real chumps stop paying, the MTA can easily justify a full-blown leap to turnstiles. After all, those 19th-Century trainmen just can't keep up with 21st-Century fares, see? Only automation can do that.

Keen way of cutting the workforce, isn't it?

Ironic that the Unions supported these same people in the last election. Unfortunately for the first time, they didn't deliver a victory on Long Island where the incumbents were annihilated. It's a clear case of "what have you done for me lately?" Apparently not enough to keep your craft.

https://www.newsday.com/long-island/tra ... s-otsp6s4f
  by andrewjw
look at the bigger picture. the commuter railroads have been experiencing labor shortages causing train cancelations. manual ticket collection is a distant memory in most of our overseas comparables. it's idiotic that we can't run a good service because not enough crews are available when we could solve that problem and prevent fare evasion in a way that would decrease long run costs.

"educational approach" is code for de-criminalization. obviously will still be a fine, but turning over fare evaders to the police and putting them into our overloaded, dysfunctional criminal justice system isn't helping anyone.

ps thanks Jeff for fixing this ridiculous post so we can at least react to its incendiary opinions...
  by Kelly&Kelly
I obviously had no intention of making a "ridiculous post," Andrew.

"incendiary opinions..."? What's that about?

Please send me a personal message. I'd like to know what was triggering. Can you keep this private?
  by RandallW
You implied that every single person who has not been jumping turnstiles or otherwise avoiding paying fares on any form of public transport (or for that matter not engaged in other theft against private or public insti) anywhere antilabor fools. That is your incendiary opinion that is angering.
  by andrewjw
Go ride trains anywhere else in the world. Will you find a conductor for every two cars checking tickets manually? No. Will you find turnstyles? Yes, at city centers. The idea that anything that reduces the number of union workers needed is an evil plot to cut the workforce, vs progress towards a better system for everyone, is the sort of "I got mine" selfcentered lunacy that gives unions a (right or wrong) reputation for being in the way of progress + what the users of the system need.

The strawman arguments against decriminalization of fare evasion don't help either.

btw, I love that DM you sent me. I couldn't pack more trashcore conservative dogwhistles into it if I tried. "triggered" hahaha. Amazing to suggest I am against enforcing fare evasion laws when you are the one standing in the way of fair fare enforcement with your antiquated support for walking up and down every train.
  by FrankAndCindy
Hello Andrew, I'am a retired trainman. In your analysis have you figured in the cost of policing all stations on the system? They have been talking about turnstiles since my fathers day in 1943. It all comes down to the costs. You should have the total costs before you talk. With respect Frank Collura
  by Kelly&Kelly
Andrew, I only asked if you keep your personal assessment of me and woke politics to private messages. I'm here to discuss the railroad, not your political triggers. So PM me if you want to go there. This isn't the place.

Of course there are labor and political issues in this fare collection topic. Always were. My post was intended as a profile of future revenue protection proposals and the proposed manner to be politically accomplished by the State government.

We all have opinions, and they differ based on what is important to us. There's a technological viewpoint, an efficiency viewpoint, a labor viewpoint. Let's try to examine our views without belittling others'.
  by nyandw
ConstanceR46: Rather then provoke further politic arguments, I suggest Google, for starters, to define the word "woke", yes? Note to Jeff Smith: I come here for info and to share LIRR info, but this has become a political "piss fight". Done, sadly :-(