Railroad Forums 

  • Finger Lakes Railway (FGLK) Discussion

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New York State.

Moderator: Otto Vondrak

 #1462854  by D Alex
 
Does FGLK still even serve Victor? For a couple of years, they were using the old LVRR main NW of town as car storage, but I guess the town made them move them. I haven't seen a train in Victor in at least a year.
 #1462862  by BR&P
 
The insulator works gets a few cars a month.

I know the storage cars came and went several times. I don't know whether the town "made them" move them, or if they were just ordered out.

Nothing official, but my guess is before too long the track will end just east of the Rt. 96 crossing near Manchester. I would love to be proved wrong, but I just don't see any major industry locating along there. Between the state's economy in general, and the spread of residential development, I think the handwriting is on the wall. It was fun while it lasted.

ON THIS DAY - 02-23-1982 Conrail to ONCT 5 cars for Victor Insulator, 2 for Dekalb, and one for Iron City Sash & Door. That brought the ONCT traffic count year to date up to 42 cars.
 #1462890  by nessman
 
Towns can't make railroads do anything. That's all federally regulated.

What's left on the ONCT? Victor Insulators, the transload facility in Manchester. Great Lakes Kraut is closing... is Ryan Homes still receiving loads?

Why would they abandon past Rt 96 in Manchester? So long as Victor Insulators is receiving loads... and there's storage at the end of the track...
 #1462896  by BR&P
 
nessman wrote:Why would they abandon past Rt 96 in Manchester? So long as Victor Insulators is receiving loads... and there's storage at the end of the track...
You may be forgetting the purpose of the railroad. It's not to move freight cars. It's to make money. I don't know how many cars a month Victor gets, but it's darn few. I'm guessing maybe 4 or 5 a month. Federal regulations require the track be inspected weekly. Crossing signals must be inspected monthly, with more complex inspection quarterly and even more so annually. Those crossings each have an RG&E feed buying electricity - and there are 9 of them. Track maintenance, train crew time, car hire, overhead such as office staff and management. Liability if some trespasser gets hurt. There are all sorts of other factors - politics to name a big one.

Back about 1980, there used to be a rule of thumb that a shortline needed a ballpark of 10 cars a mile annually for the most bare-bones survival. I'm sure that number is much higher today. West of Rt 96 you have roughly 10 miles of railroad which would suggest the need of 100 cars a year under that old formula. Obviously there are many factors to be considered but it would appear that segment of line is not currently paying its way. Storage of cars may offset some or all of that shortfall but that comes at an increasing cost politically.

The above is my personal evaluation, and does not suggest any insight or knowledge of how FGLK may see things.
 #1462900  by nessman
 
OK - makes sense. The line by itself isn't profitable. But wouldn't traffic have to stop for 2+ years before the FGLK could petition the STB for abandonment?
 #1462903  by BR&P
 
I'm trying to recall the nuances of abandonment, fortunately I had very little cause to know them. I believe you can petition for abandonment any time you want, but must make a case for it. If no traffic has moved for X time, the case becomes much simpler.
 #1462952  by BR&P
 
Good point. Can't recall whether STB would still be involved with cessation of service over someone else's property. I know of one such case where the operating company went out of business and just let the contract with the track owner expire, no STB filing. But there was no active customer on that line to object.
 #1462979  by lvrr325
 
In fact, Finger Lakes when they took over the cluster I believe turned around and made some deal with the counties they operate in to get out from under the property tax burden. That's the biggest issue with a line like this, especially in New York. Once that's out of the way you can be profitable with a lot less traffic.

I mean Victor Insulator was never more than one or two cars at a time.

And the business on the west side of Rt. 251's been umpteen things and hasn't used rail service in ages, but the crossing is still there should someone change their mind.
 #1463027  by D Alex
 
Unfortunately, once you are past that crossing about 100', the rails are gone, and the LVRR trail in the park starts. Perhaps Ontario county would be willing to let FGLK re-lay tracks all the way across the old Auburn route overpass, but I doubt it.
 #1463039  by BR&P
 
lvrr325 wrote:I mean Victor Insulator was never more than one or two cars at a time.
I presume you mean in FGLK's time. Back in ONCT's early days, VI always had 5 or 6 cars at a time up there, and had an employee who did nothing but unload railcars his whole shift. The train usually ran twice a week and often had 3 or 4 VI cars each trip. That involved switching as they USUALLY wanted the older cars first, except when there was something hot coming in. Yes, there were times when they did not get anything for a week or so, but overall they were busy.

As for west of Rt 251:

The county's ROW actually extends to MP 371, which is ballpark 1/4 mile west of the Rt 251 crossing. Originally Iron City Sash & Door was a trailing point westbound switch. When Iron City wanted to expand in the 1980's a deal was worked out to acquire some of the county land, and the warehouse was served from an extension of what used to be the main track. ONCT insisted as part of the deal that a turnout be installed, and the width of a right of way be preserved along the south edge, so potential traffic west of there could be accessed if ever needed.

Re D Alex's remark about westward extension, actually beyond MP371 the ROW is owned by the Town of Victor. Roughly 15 years ago there was a sizable move of power poles which were transloaded just east of Rt 251 and trucked to the storage yard on Phillips Road. There was some preliminary thought of extending the track as you say to reach that location directly. The ROW was walked and looked over, but the concept never reached serious consideration. Between getting the necessary permissions and agreements, and the cost of track materials and labor, to move traffic the railroad already was handling, it just did not make sense. A few years later, the pole outfit changed hands and left that location anyway (and NOT because the track was not built) so it was the right call.

No other traffic ever developed west of Rt 251 and since Victor is an upscale bedroom community, it's never going to happen.
 #1463073  by lvrr325
 
Even in 1995 when I chased out there, the drop for ONCT was two cars. The ONCT crew gave me a ride back up to the crossing after I went down in to get some pictures.

Hearing Finger Lakes won't move any of that stuff down there anyways, not even a simple shift from one track to another, whoever's managing that stuff they really need to replace with a shortline guy, he sounds like a class 1 man.
 #1463166  by sd80mac
 
BR&P wrote:The insulator works gets a few cars a month.

I know the storage cars came and went several times. I don't know whether the town "made them" move them, or if they were just ordered out.

Nothing official, but my guess is before too long the track will end just east of the Rt. 96 crossing near Manchester. I would love to be proved wrong, but I just don't see any major industry locating along there. Between the state's economy in general, and the spread of residential development, I think the handwriting is on the wall. It was fun while it lasted.

ON THIS DAY - 02-23-1982 Conrail to ONCT 5 cars for Victor Insulator, 2 for Dekalb, and one for Iron City Sash & Door. That brought the ONCT traffic count year to date up to 42 cars.
No more Ryan?
  • 1
  • 27
  • 28
  • 29
  • 30
  • 31
  • 37