FDR Funeral Train at New Rochelle

The recent book about the Roosevelt Funeral train has created quite a lot of interest in how the train was routed between the New Haven's Hell Gate route from Pennsylvania Station and the New York Central's Hudson Division. The book says it ran east to New Rochelle and then reversed direction there, running via Woodlawn to Mott Haven.

This interested me and in reading over stories about the FDR funeral train in NY City newspaper archives I noted that people turned out along the right-of-way (as they did with the RFK funeral train in my time) to pay their final respects. I wondered, if the train did halt in New Rochelle to change engines, might not the local paper have published some details? New Rochelle is a small suburban city and had it's own local daily newspaper for many years. Recently I got the chance to visit the New Rochelle (NY) Public Library which has a microfilm collection with many years of the local paper.

I was very pleasantly surprised to find exactly what I was looking for almost immediately. In my experience that seldom happens.

In the New Rochelle Standard Star edition of April 15, 1945 there was a short story about the train being due in New Rochelle that morning. There was no time given but the article stated the train would arrive at Pennsylvania Station at 4:15 AM and depart 20 minutes later, headed for the Hell Gate Bridge. Arrival in Hyde Park was scheduled for 8:40 AM.

The following day's paper had a detailed story reporting the scene at New Rochelle. First the pilot train had come through, with mostly military people on board. Then a train bearing members of Congress and other mourners. Then the funeral train bearing Roosevelt's body arrived a few mnutes before six. The Star described 300 people waiting on the station platform "bare-headed and in hushed silence in the grey light of dawn" as the train slowly passed. Other people waited along the tracks and at various other vantage points. After passing the station the train pulled up to the small local freight yard a short distance east to "change engines." While it was stopped New Rochelle Mayor Stanley Church, accompanied by the local police chief, entered the freight yard to present a floral wreath. It was taken by a porter and placed near the casket in the rear car, which would be "the first car behind the locomotive when the train left for Mott Haven."

The article went on-

"The New Haven electric locomotive which pulled the train out of New Rochelle was draped in black, with mourning streamers across the windows of the cab."

What was also interesting, was the information on the number of times Roosevelt traveled through New Rochelle when headed for Hyde Park while President. Changing engines in the freight yard was the normal procedure, the Star reported, and as they had done since 1933, New Rochelle police were stationed at the passenger station, in the freight yard, at each bridge and along the right-of-way.

The Star quoted New Rochelle police as saying the funeral train marked the 79th time they had turned out to guard a POTUS train since FDR had taken office, just over twelve years earlier.

I also posted this information on the NHRR Historical Group's message board but decided to post it here as well since I know some of you no longer read the other board.

What is the title of this book. It sounds fascinating!

The book is "FDR's Funeral Train" by Robert Klara. And I believe Mr. Klara is a retired locomotive engineer.

I haven't read it but the book is supposed to be about the people on the train, their politics and their relationship to FDR and to one another. It was a strange mix of people. Reviewers say -- despite the title -- there's very little 'railroad' in it.

Did you know that the Waldorf-Astoria had an elevator to bring FDR from a special platform below up into the hotel?
http://www.columbia.edu/~brennan/abandoned/gct61.html
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-20010203-52.html
The special car is supposedly still on the same track below.

yes we all know, and the car is a load of BS, its a ex NYC bagage car moved into terminal in 1984 in MNCW blue as part of wreck train.
It was never in GCT before and has no doors big enough for even a Yugo.

Mr. Klara is a writer who has had a number of railroad pieces published before his FDR book. Not a locomotive engineer, retired or active.

I read accounts in TRAINS. There was more consumption of booze per-capita on each of those trains. Congressmen and others were drinking like fish through the night. Oh well, it was a funeral. In those days, men of a certain caliber could execute such an operation. Today, there would be all sorts of "managers" tripping and falling over each other. Even on fantrips, etc., representatives from Legal-the railroads' lawyers must approve the move and must be aboard.

keithsy wrote:Congressmen and others were drinking like fish through the night. Oh well, it was a funeral.

Sounds more like an Irish wake. Trust me, I've been to a few.

Also sounds like the trip flying JFK's body back to DC from Dallas on AF One in 1963. Everyone on the plane was soused, supposedly.

In the New Rochelle Standard Star edition of...[April 16, 1945 was] a detailed story reporting the scene at New Rochelle...

The New Rochelle newspaper story I quoted also had some interesting information about the train after it left for Mott Haven.

I believe the reporter traveled by private auto to Mott Haven to watch the train change ends again. He wrote that while earlier most of the funeral train's (there were a total of three trains in the movement) cars had been dark, as the train lay over at Mott Haven just past sunrise, lights began to come on in the cars.

Either in the diner or an office car, he could see the new President Harry Truman sitting at a table deep in conversation with military officers.

Though reportedly scheduled to arrive Hyde Park at 8:40 AM, arrival time there was closer to 10 AM. The reporter said the New York Central steam locomotives assigned to forward the train were late in arriving.

Maybe this should be in the NYC Forum, but I've always wondered how Central allowed itself to delay the funeral train bearing the body of FDR. By failing to get the power to MO as scheduled? Barely seems possible!

I've often wondered if possibly it was decided -- behind the scenes, maybe at the last minute, maybe by Mrs. Roosevelt? -- to hold the train at Mott Haven for a later arrival at Hyde Park.

If I can play history detective for a moment, a decision by the funeral party to delay their arrival at Hyde Park sounds a lot more likely then it taking the New York Central the better part of three hours to run three light engines from Harmon to MO. Hope so anyway.

Interesting event.

Regarding FDR's earlier trips via this route, the evidence from my father's diaries shows that the Wash.-Hyde Park trips were split roughly 50-50 between B&O/NYC West Shore and PRR-NH-NYC/Hudson Div. before WWII. Afterwards, B&O routing was used almost exclusively because of the Secret Service's fears about vulnerability at Penn Sta. and Hell Gate Bridge.

Herb Harwood

Tommy Meehan wrote:
. . .
Though reportedly scheduled to arrive Hyde Park at 8:40 AM, arrival time there was closer to 10 AM. The reporter said the New York Central steam locomotives assigned to forward the train were late in arriving.

Maybe this should be in the NYC Forum, but I've always wondered how Central allowed itself to delay the funeral train bearing the body of FDR. By failing to get the power to MO as scheduled? Barely seems possible!

I've often wondered if possibly it was decided -- behind the scenes, maybe at the last minute, maybe by Mrs. Roosevelt? -- to hold the train at Mott Haven for a later arrival at Hyde Park.

If I can play history detective for a moment, a decision by the funeral party to delay their arrival at Hyde Park sounds a lot more likely then it taking the New York Central the better part of three hours to run three light engines from Harmon to MO. Hope so anyway. . . .

The book "FDR's Funeral Train" describes the engine change at MO and points out that the Secret Service was very nervous about the stop required for the engine change there since MO (as any of us who know the location can readily picture) is a wide-open spot with numerous street bridges across the tracks. It says the trains arrived there at 6:25 AM and departed 6:45.

To run on some more about this, there were two sections of the train --- not three --- but there were three NYC Hudsons. The third engine was a pilot engine that preceded both sections. The first section of the train, 11 cars, was dubbed by the railroads "The Congressional," and appropriately so, since it carried the senators and congresspeople. The second section, 18 cars, was the funeral train proper. The famous presidential car "Ferdinand Magellan" was the second to last car and carried the Roosevelt family. FDR's body rode the last car, the "Conneaut." The train took a while to get from MO to Hyde Park for two reasons, both intentional: 1) it ran at 30 mph, this to give trackside viewers --- of which there were many --- a good look; and 2) The planners wanted to get "The Congressional" section to Hyde Park at least a half hour ahead of the funeral train, this to provide a head start unloading. Such a head start was necessary since it is not a short car trip from Hyde Park station to the Roosevelt estate. The funeral train itself went to a special siding the NYC had installed some time previously in the FDR adnministration, right at the foot of the hill below the FDR property (and which I never had heard of!)

My wife met the author of the book at a book signing which I unfortunately wasn't at!!

The only thing I can point out is the Standard Star story was written a few hours after the fact by someone who watched it happening. I haven't had a chance to read the book so I don't know what his sources were. Is it footnoted, does he say what he bases his timeline on?

I do know the eyewitness said the pilot train was passenger equipment with mostly military personnel on board. The two accounts agree on the second section being mostly congressional people and the third section being the funeral party.

As for the arrival times at Mott Haven, it doesn't sound right to me that all three sections could've arrived and departed MO in twenty minutes, much less done it simultaneously.

It says the trains arrived there at 6:25 AM and departed 6:45.

That I don't get.

At 30 mph it would take about twenty minutes to traverse New Rochelle to Mott Haven. I thought the news account had the funeral train leaving New Rochelle around 6:30 AM. So that would put the arrival time at closer to 7:00 AM.

Without digging out the news item, I have the impression the funeral train was at MO from about 7:00-8:30.The reporter, who was there, wrote that the sections sat for there for a long time before the NYC locomotives even arrived. He assumed that was due to a delay in Central getting the light engines to MO. I have trouble believing that Central would hold up a train bearing the body of Franklin Delano Roosevelt because they couldn't get light engines in place on schedule. It is possible though.

I did some news archive searching trying to find information about the funeral procession. It was hard to find information about the trains in the major newspapers -- the ones that are most readily available -- they concentrated on the larger issues. I do seem to recall finding in a New York Times story that the funeral train apparently arrived later then originally scheduled at Hyde Park. That would tend to cooroborate the account in the Standard Star and establish a timeline somewhat different from the official schedule.

Which one is more accurate, the news account or the book? I don't know. But I would tend to give more weight to accounts written just hours after the fact, by reporters who witnessed the event for themselves, over an account written 65 years later, especially given the fact I don't know the sources used.

Maybe neither, unfortunately both newspaper and media write ups are ofter full of errors probably due to people doing the writing not have sufficient knowledge of their subject and books often contain errors as well. I have been reading some of the books in my collection and I have a lot of them and have found plenty of errors. I think some of the problems with books is probably the proofreading, maybe they are in too much of a hurry to finish the job or something. I don't take as "gospel" everything that I read in a book either. Transportation notices would be a good alternative if any of them are around, I don't think I have one for these trains. The main negative with TN's is that they can be superseeded or changed and maybe the changes are not around, there is no easy answer at this time.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:Maybe neither, unfortunately both newspaper and media write ups are ofter full of errors probably due to people doing the writing not have sufficient knowledge of their subject and books often contain errors as well. I have been reading some of the books in my collection and I have a lot of them and have found plenty of errors. I think some of the problems with books is probably the proofreading, maybe they are in too much of a hurry to finish the job or something. I don't take as "gospel" everything that I read in a book either. Transportation notices would be a good alternative if any of them are around, I don't think I have one for these trains. The main negative with TN's is that they can be superseeded or changed and maybe the changes are not around, there is no easy answer at this time.
Noel Weaver

Since this movement involved the military, I'm willing to bet that somewhere, in some file room in Washington (probably resembling the one at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark) there is a full minute-by-minute record of the progress of this train... Trouble would be knowing where to look.