Fare Zones ???

I know that Zone 1 is the City Terminal Zone but what happened to zone 2 or the other missing numbers? What I'm really trying to find out is the limits of the present zone system and the missing numbers, ie where would Woodhaven, Republic, or Pineaire fit in ?

Here are the curent fare Zones. Years ago, probably in the 80's they consolidated some of the zones, during a fare increase.
Jamaica used to be zone 2. Zones 3 and 4 are still the same.
RVC, Baldwin and Freport were zone 5, Merrick Bellmore and wantagh were zone 6.
They were all consolidated into zone 7.
I dont remember the exact consolidations east of zone 9, I might have an old fare card laying around, will post it if i find it.
I could be wrong, but I think Pineaire was zone 9, Brentwood being the first one in 10. I republic was zone 7.
Woodhaven is a tough one, could have been zone 1 or 2. Shea Stadium used to be zone 2, and I think flushing main street as well.

Does anyone know why these fare zones cannot be replaced during this "dooms day" budget?
Figure it would adjust the fares more accordingly and be more fair for the passengers commuting from these stations. If you live in RVC you pay the same as if you came in from Massapequa Park, not exactly walking distance apart. The price difference might not close the budget but it will help.
Jamaica should be fare zone 2 again and fare zone 1A should be all stations between western terminals and Jamaica.
This way if you travel from Jamaica to Kew Gardens, Forest Hills and Woodside you pay say S4.00 but to Brooklyn/LIC/HPA/New York you pay$6.00
From Kew Gardens, Forest Hills and Woodside to Penn it 5.00 (these are sample station prices.)
I think these prices are fair for the public considering if the company was not state owned they would be paying almost 100 times that for the same distance traveled. So realistically speaking making fair fare zones would help with the budget.
I don't want to see a fare hike but if it has to happen let's make it as lease painful as possible and spread the paid with fair fare zone pricing.

workextra wrote:Does anyone know why these fare zones cannot be replaced during this "dooms day" budget?
<snip>
I don't want to see a fare hike but if it has to happen let's make it as lease painful as possible and spread the paid with fair fare zone pricing.

You want to lower prices? How would this bring the MTA more money?

Patchogue, Medford, St. James, Stony Brook and Port Jefferson were zone 11. This was consolidated into Zone 10 whenever the fares that replaced the 1995 fare chart went into effect (I think 2000?).

mkm4 wrote:You want to lower prices? How would this bring the MTA more money?

You don't need to charge less by reinstating old fare zones, just not increase (or increase less) for the new lower zones. For example, restore Zone 11 at a higher rate but keep Zone 10 fares the same. Restore Zone 5 at Zone 7's current rate, and increase Zone 7's.

This is probably a bad idea though, I get the feeling the zone consolidation was done to discourage people from driving to lower fare zones. No point in driving an extra 15 miles if your monthly costs the same, but if it saves you $50/month, you might be more inclined...

The "Doomsday Budget" was quickly put in place by people who hardly know Long Island exists.

In addition to raising money, the Budget is intended to rally political pressure against the State. By causing inconvenience and anger, the MTA hopes riders will battle the Governor to sink even more money into their inflated operating budgets.

Any attempt at revising the fare structure to pursue any type of equity would be counterproductive to this cause.

I dont' know what the parking restrictions are on the south shore. But assuming it's done on the Town level, then you'd have the same ticket and same parking from Rockville Center through Seaford in the Town of Hempstead. That way you don't get crowding into stations further west, and you'd just drive to the closest station.

Everyone: The LIRR fare zones have interested me for quite some time.
I remember these consolidations: Zone 1a(NYP) and Zone 1b-FBA Brooklyn into City Zone One in 1980.
Zones 2 and 3 were combined to become the current Zone 3.
Zone 4 has never been changed.
Zone 5,6 and 7 in Nassau County made up Zone 7.
Zone 8 and 9 became the current Zone 9.
Zone 10 was combined from zones 11 and 10-the only case where the zone # was not the farthest east-done in the last 10 years.
Zone 12 - only 4 stations now - is unchanged.
Zone 14 was most interesting-it was combined from Zone 13(Westhampton,Riverhead in the west),Zone 14 and Zone 15-which was Montauk all by its lonesome-to make the current Zone 14.
All this-except the 10/11 combination was done in basically the 80s period.

Mentioned stations like Woodhaven(Zone 1b) and Republic(Zone 9-it was over the Nassau-Suffolk line which was the 7-9 zone boundary) were interesting places.

The LIRR needs to update their fare zones to reflect the system as it is today-NOT how it was in the 70s and 80s.
I suggest the following : Re-number the zones consecutively to reflect today's LIRR this way:
City Zone One-Remains the same; Zone 3 would be the new zone 2;Zone 4 would be the new zone 3;Zone 7 would be the new Zone 4;Zone 9 would be the new Zone 5;Zone 10 would become Zone 6;Zone 12 would become Zone 7 and Zone 14 would become the new Zone 8. Since there is only 8 zones today this change makes sense.

Metro North renumbered their fare zones on the Harlem and Hudson lines in the last 10 years consecutively-with similar distance fares it makes good sense.

The LIRR argument against this was the use of pre-printed ticket stock-which would have cost the LIRR a substantial sum to print and replace literally millions of tickets.

With the automated TVM and TOM system they have today that argument is moot-there would be adjusting to change but it would benefit the LIRR to make changes like this at the time of a fare increase.

Another alternative would be to go to a METRA-type letter zone system using A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H from West to East.

Thoughts and observations by MACTRAXX

hs3730 wrote:Patchogue, Medford, St. James, Stony Brook and Port Jefferson were zone 11. This was consolidated into Zone 10 whenever the fares that replaced the 1995 fare chart went into effect (I think 2000?).

The November 1995 rate chart lasted until May 1, 2003 increase.

MACTRAXX wrote: The LIRR needs to update their fare zones to reflect the system as it is today-NOT how it was in the 70s and 80s.
I suggest the following : Re-number the zones consecutively to reflect today's LIRR this way:
City Zone One-Remains the same; Zone 3 would be the new zone 2;Zone 4 would be the new zone 3;Zone 7 would be the new Zone 4;Zone 9 would be the new Zone 5;Zone 10 would become Zone 6;Zone 12 would become Zone 7 and Zone 14 would become the new Zone 8. Since there is only 8 zones today this change makes sense.

Metro North renumbered their fare zones on the Harlem and Hudson lines in the last 10 years consecutively-with similar distance fares it makes good sense.

The LIRR argument against this was the use of pre-printed ticket stock-which would have cost the LIRR a substantial sum to print and replace literally millions of tickets.

With the automated TVM and TOM system they have today that argument is moot-there would be adjusting to change but it would benefit the LIRR to make changes like this at the time of a fare increase.

Another alternative would be to go to a METRA-type letter zone system using A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H from West to East.

Thoughts and observations by MACTRAXX

If it ain't broke, why fix it?

CP: The fare zones-as they are numbered today-make little sense to today's rider.
They make sense for longtime LIRR observers like you and me.

The zones should be renumbered consecutively to show the zones as they are today-NOT as they were in the 70s and 80s.
This adjustment makes perfect sense-MACTRAXX

So say you re-number the zones. One stays at one. Three becomes two. Four becomes three. Seven becomes four. Etc., etc., etc.

Then say in a few years, you want to consolidate zones again, say make all of Nassau County one zone. Do you re-number again?

Renumbering the zones would subject the Railroad to criticism for "raising" fares by gerrymandering fare zones. Why subject yourself to that when there is nothing to be gained?

Found this chart:

http://stationreporter.net/lirr_zones.htm

Everyone: Good note by George Chaisson concerning the original 70s era LIRR fare zones. He was correct on all but he left out the FBA Brooklyn line stations Nostrand Ave.,East New York and Woodhaven and the old Montauk Branch from Richmond Hill to LIC-which were all originally in Zone 1B.

Tool is right by mentioning combining fare zones-I recall a thought of making all of Nassau County(Zones 4 and 7) one zone and combining the four stations in Zone 12 with Zone 14 making one east-end zone during a past fare increase but it was quietly withdrawn.

I recall when the current Zone 7 was created there was some outcry from commuters from stations like Rockville Centre-who were upset for paying the same fares as Massapequa Park riders 10 miles further east.

With Zone 12 and 14 combined a rider going to Bellport would pay the same fare as going to Montauk-58 miles further. That does not sound good to me.
Today these two stations-because of a 2006 fare adjustment-have the minimum pre-paid fare of $2.25 to travel between these stations-and anywhere in between.

MACTRAXX