• Ethan Allen Discussion, including Expansion (Burlington)

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

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  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Prof. Martens, Vermont made known what they wanted. "Two a Day" over the CV certainly would have been less $$ (cheaper) than taking the Rutland, at best an FRA Class 2 (passenger 30mph), and making it a Class 3 (passenger 60mph; believe minimum Amtrak will operate over). "Two a Day", but serving more of the state.
  by jbvb
 
Serving Bennington & Manchester VT via the original Troy & Boston route from Johnsonville to Troy via Lansingburgh is out; it was abandoned in the 1960s. I've seen hints that clearances on the Troy Union RR were poor. An alternative that still existed in the 1970s was the D&H from Albany to Mechanicville; The 1976 Adirondack went that way, passing under the NYC line from West Albany to Rensselaer, backing from D&H track up a ramp to the NYC line and proceeding forward across the Hudson. If that line is irretrievably gone, then we are indeed stuck with going via Schenectady.
  by Railjunkie
 
jbvb wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:52 pm Serving Bennington & Manchester VT via the original Troy & Boston route from Johnsonville to Troy via Lansingburgh is out; it was abandoned in the 1960s. I've seen hints that clearances on the Troy Union RR were poor. An alternative that still existed in the 1970s was the D&H from Albany to Mechanicville; The 1976 Adirondack went that way, passing under the NYC line from West Albany to Rensselaer, backing from D&H track up a ramp to the NYC line and proceeding forward across the Hudson. If that line is irretrievably gone, then we are indeed stuck with going via Schenectady.
This rumor has been around for 15 years or more between the Vermont and the purposed commuter service Saratoga to Albany using the connection between the D&H and NYC aka "Bull Run". It is still there, however it would take an act of congress to get trains running on it again.

A long while back a D&H/CP freight train was short on time and needed to get to Kenwood yard (D&H) the easy way would have been Bull Run, less than two miles. The hard way was up through Schenectady through Mohawk yard out the freight main down to Albany. Way more than thirty. After repeated pleas by the freight crew and I guess dispatcher attempts at getting permission from someone with a higher pay grade the decision was made not today not ever. So the train laid up in Rennselaer.

I just don't see it happening its kinda no mans land now. 24yrs playing trains and I have never seen nor heard of anything going up or down Bull Run
  by jp1822
 
In thinking about Vermont Passenger Rail Service......

- It's too bad the Vermonter doesn't have a descent connection at Springfield to connect with Boston. When the inland route was more popular with Regional trains (pardon me - Northeast Direct trains), there was a descent amount of interchange handled at Boston, and their was even a high speed train desire between Boston and Montreal. I've even thought about if there's a way to split the Vermonter at Springfield and send say two cars to Boston and the rest to Washington DC.

- Vermonter needs its extension to Montreal - but only via the cross-border clearance method to be done at Montreal train station.

- Vermont would be better served if it could get the Ethan Allen Express "into Vermont" at North Bennington and then straight up the west side of Vermont (and Lake Champlain) to Rutland. The current incremental approach to get the EAE to Burlington is certainly to be applauded.

In terms of the overnight service - if you talk to the "caretakers" on this route who remember the Montrealer (and riders), they also say that this was a heavily patronized train - some saying more so than even the current Vermonter, and not just ski season or winter. In some of the schedules, the northbound departed Washington DC at 4:30 pm or so and then hit ideal times in Philly and NYC to get people to Vermont by early next morning. Montrealer was in Brattleboro close to 5 am on some schedules - not all that bad. The goal was to be in Montreal before 11 am. Many Vermonters (especially out of Burlington) used to take the train north for a day-trip in Montreal and then catch the southbound home when it departed Montreal after 5 pm - similar to the Seattle - Vancouver, BC train. Returning back, Brattleboro was around midnight or so, and then good morning departures on the Corridor from NYP and south. IF ever re-instated, the train would likely HOLD in Springfield a bit to try and get more passenger friendly times north to Vermont and south to the NEC.

So it could still be a good Vermont and Montreal based overnight train, it's just that I strongly doubt Vermont is going to come up with a subsidy large enough to meet Amtrak's requirements with sleeper cars along for the ride. Amtrak is also not in the market for establishing new LD trains. The mileage is around 650 and 700 so not sure if the powers that be could be convinced to make it a National based train! It largely got axed in the mid 90's due to shortage of Heritage Sleepers and not enough Viewliners to replace them in time for the "no dump" rule to take place by 2000.....Vermont got strong-armed a bit to come up with the money to make it a day train and all parties proceeded accordingly.
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