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  • Equilateral turnouts

  • Discussion related to the Lehigh Valley Railroad and predecessors for the period 1846-1976. Originally incorporated as the Delaware, Lehigh, Schuylkill and Susquehanna Railroad Company.
Discussion related to the Lehigh Valley Railroad and predecessors for the period 1846-1976. Originally incorporated as the Delaware, Lehigh, Schuylkill and Susquehanna Railroad Company.

Moderator: scottychaos

 #1581891  by KevinD
 
Can anyone come up with a list of interlockings that were equipped with equilateral turnouts? Did their installation choice have anything to do with approaching track geometry permitting higher speeds? I noticed they are not really identified graphically in any late era track charts. Did it have anything to do with certain sidings equipped with bracket mast signals (where both tracks featured a 'high mount' signal) as opposed to other sidings where there was a high mast for one track and a lower mast/dwarf for the other track? Batavia Int Mar 76 was clearly an equilateral.

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Were all sidings bi-directional, or were there some that were operated like current-of-traffic signaled? Was their a difference in signal indications when entering a siding depending upon the switch type or bi-directional status? I saw a video clip of a train getting a red over flashing lunar to enter a siding (against the current) at a switch that was not an equilateral design. Were there different (upgraded) signal indications also possible depending upon track geometry? Rochester Jct Nov 71 shows snow topped rails on former WB while former EB has seen some traffic.

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 #1582347  by TB Diamond
 
No list. However, on the west end (Sayre-Buffalo/Suspension Bridge) according to LVRR ETT No. 9 in effect October 27, 1968, speed restrictions, there were two: Batavia Int. and Wyoming Int. which both had a turnout speed of 60 mph. However, the turnout speed for both interlockings was reduced to 25 mph for Batavia Int. and 40 mph for Wyoming Int. in ETT No. 10 effective August 10, 1975.

Passing sidings were bidirectional and signaled for same.

The photo that you posted of Rochester Jct. shows that location when the railroad was still operating under ABS Rule 251.
 #1582589  by KevinD
 
East of Sayre, I've seen evidence that Laceyville and Falls were both equilaterals. Laceyville had been at the end of double track all the way from Sayre, and was the beginning of 30+ miles of single track through Vosburg tunnel without passing opportunities until reaching Falls. There was another oddly long 30+ miles of single track between Hindman and Ordinance, too.

I wonder if the proximity of the bridge adjacent to Batavia was behind the 60 -> 25 mph reduction. Not the track planner's most brilliant piece of work to place those two features so close together during the single-tracking effort. By those late years LV was dealing with hobbled operations from the near-loss of the river bridge at Athens, so someone probably slapped a slow order to keep any switch-triggered derailment from having the opportunity to damage the Batavia bridge, too. Placing Batavia another 1/4 to 1/2 mile west would have alleviated those fears.
 #1582714  by TrainDetainer
 
What evidence? Just curious. Both ends of Laceyville siding were standard turnouts in the 90s, as was Falls. Laceyville had a LH on the west end and a RH on the east end and Falls was a RH turnout. My memory isn't what it was but I don't recall any equilaterals east of Sayre when I was running there, including the old CTC sidings between Laceyville and Athens in the late 80s, and I do remember seeing the old signals with their rusty heads turned and broken out at the former interlockings. I can't imagine CR would have spent money on straightening equilaterals to downgrade the line to 25MPH operation.
 #1582765  by charlie6017
 
KevinD wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:39 pm East of Sayre, I've seen evidence that Laceyville and Falls were both equilaterals. Laceyville had been at the end of double track all the way from Sayre, and was the beginning of 30+ miles of single track through Vosburg tunnel without passing opportunities until reaching Falls. There was another oddly long 30+ miles of single track between Hindman and Ordinance, too.

I wonder if the proximity of the bridge adjacent to Batavia was behind the 60 -> 25 mph reduction. Not the track planner's most brilliant piece of work to place those two features so close together during the single-tracking effort. By those late years LV was dealing with hobbled operations from the near-loss of the river bridge at Athens, so someone probably slapped a slow order to keep any switch-triggered derailment from having the opportunity to damage the Batavia bridge, too. Placing Batavia another 1/4 to 1/2 mile west would have alleviated those fears.
I believe Wyoming interlocking near Lancaster was also an equilateral. There's no doubt Lehigh Valley made every attempt to save money however they could, so I guess it must have been the most cost-efficient way.

Re: the long stretch between Ordnance and Hinman INT's - this was a steep upward grade for east bounds and drop for west bounds. I'm guessing LV thought this was a good place to pare track since dispatchers probably didn't want to have to start and stop trains in the middle of the hill.

Charlie
Last edited by charlie6017 on Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 #1607635  by KevinD
 
TrainDetainer wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:42 pm What evidence? Just curious. Both ends of Laceyville siding were standard turnouts in the 90s, as was Falls.
http://www.marjum.com/lvrr/

General Order 1002 dated 12/75 shows a diagram of the new track layout resulting from the last of the single-tracking between Sugar Creek (Towanda) and Laceyville. Evidently, Greens Landing to Sugar Creek had already been single tracked earlier. This eliminated the last of the double track between Sayre and Coxton.
 #1607642  by TrainDetainer
 
Thanks for the GO link. The rh CR switch was located just east of Little Tuscarora Creek at the beginning of the curve about 400 feet west of Church St. You can still see the switch ties on current Google satellite photos. I don't recall if the old equilateral was still there but if it was still there in the 90s it wasn't the beginning of the siding but the entrance to the M/W track that went over near the depot from east of Church Street. The whole area is all grown up with trees and barely recognizable to me now. It must not have ever been an equilateral on the order of Batavia's since it was 20MPH right from the beginning (along with the siding) according to the general order.

Side note, in the early 90s there was an interesting derailment on the siding next to the campground. I was eastbound on BUAL/CGAL and under special orders for the area - came slowly around the curve from Rocky Forrest to see a whole string of the previous night's train on it's belly on the siding looking like there was a three-foot depression in the track. Most were tank cars but there were a few other boxes and a lumber car or two on their bellies too. The cars were upright and in line on the siding, still coupled, but as we got closer we could see their trucks were all laying up on the side of the north bank, like someone had popped them out from under the cars and set them carefully on the bank next to the train where they came from, parallel to the train. Nothing had been touched by rerailing crews yet so far as we could tell - they were all still assembling over in Laceyville. Looked like something a modeler would do. I never found out how it happened. They said they didn't know they were derailed until the air went when the cars landed on the ground. IIRC we deadheaded home from and ALBU/ALCG was parked in Coxton that night while they rerailed at the campground.