• Empire Builder on the Ground in MT

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

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  by ExCon90
 
I don't recall the exact wording, but I think I remember seeing, when SEPTA's SLV's appeared, the standard warning not to stand in the vestibules -- with nary a vestibule in sight. Maybe they could just say "do not stand in door areas." (Btw, where is the crumple zone in the SLVs, and in all the M series on Metro-North?)
  by photobug56
 
I'm guessing on MTA M7's, 8's, 9's is the 'open' area between cars. Once you are in the car, I think you are outside the crumple zone. Same with C3's.
  by StLouSteve
 
Anyone in the industry know if climate change (more frequent temp swings including hotter days in the fall/winter) is showing up in the form of more frequent sun kinks appearing in welded rail in the last decade or so?

Has any carrier revised the install instructions (acceptable temp range) for CWR?
  by BandA
 
It hasn't been said whether or not a kinked rail was involved. I would think the frequency of heat restrictions would get the railroads to sit up and take notice, but the maximum annual temperature probably hasn't gone up much.
  by justalurker66
 
Release date OCT 26, 2021.
https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pag ... ewD1CYQX_w

On September 25, 2021, about 3:47 p.m. local time, westbound National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) train 7 (also known as the Empire Builder) carrying 154 people derailed in a right-hand curve at milepost 1014.57 on the BNSF Railway (BNSF) Hi Line Subdivision near Joplin, Montana. As a result of the derailment, 3 passengers died, and 44 passengers and crew were transported to local hospitals with injuries. Damage was estimated by Amtrak to be over $22 million.

The maximum allowable speed on this section of track was 79 mph for passenger trains. The PTC system was enabled and operating at the time of the derailment. Preliminary data from the leading locomotive’s event recorder showed that train 7 was traveling between 75 and 78 mph when its emergency brakes were activated. The locomotives and the first two railcars remained on the rail. The weather was clear with no precipitation at the time of the accident.

NTSB’s investigation is ongoing. Future investigative activity will focus on track and engineering, equipment, survival factors, and passenger railcar crashworthiness.
  by STrRedWolf
 
justalurker66 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 8:28 am NTSB’s investigation is ongoing. Future investigative activity will focus on track and engineering, equipment, survival factors, and passenger railcar crashworthiness.
I'm reading through the blurb posted... and this last sentence quoted makes me lean away from human factors... and maybe a sun kink. Maybe. I could be wrong.

I think the year-after report will be more informative, but we may have a 60-day report here.
  by photobug56
 
Just curious, but historically what sort of problems (keeping heat kink in mind) could happen where the loco and first couple cars stay on the rails while later cars don't? So kink? Or axle defect? Etc.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
"Frat Boy and Sorority Sister made up", so it's time for a "repin"; the Preliminary is out:

https://www.railwayage.com/passenger/in ... derailment

Fair Use:
Railway Age reproduces the NTSB preliminary report here:

“Investigation Details
“What Happened
​“This information is preliminary and will be either supplemented or corrected during the course of the investigation.​ Release date OCT 26, 2021.

“On September 25, 2021, about 3:47 p.m. local time, westbound National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) train 7 (also known as the Empire Builder) carrying 154 people derailed in a right-hand curve at milepost 1014.57 on the BNSF Railway (BNSF) Hi Line Subdivision near Joplin, Montana.[1] (See figure.) As a result of the derailment, 3 passengers died, and 44 passengers and crew were transported to local hospitals with injuries. Damage was estimated by Amtrak to be over $22 million.
  by F40
 
I was surprised that the preliminary report did not tell us anything of note besides some technical details. I thought they would incorporate any facts they saw from the video, or the aftermath of the tracks, etc. PTC not being activated simply ruled out a seemingly obvious factor. Speaking of which, can PTC detect kinks in the rail if it is not broken? Of course piecing the facts together to find the cause and effect will take time.
  by David Benton
 
"Ditmeyer quipped that he thought the preliminary NTSB report was “wishy washy.”
I agree.
Taking up to 2 years to come to a conclusion is ridiculous.
  by photobug56
 
There are plenty of times NTSB has reason to not say anything worth hearing, such as in a plane crash at sea with no black box recovery (or telemetry). Not the case here, and ignorant me figures it can't take all that long to check things like the axles, brakes, etc. Enough to give a feel. BUT - I don't know that. None of us do. But waiting for a tidbit on something this important is frustrating.
  by eolesen
 
What this says is there's no smoking gun. If there were something obvious, it would have been stated.
  by R Paul Carey
 
The NTSB report published in RA and posted by GBN says nothing that wasn't known or knowable in the first 24 hours.

Steve Ditmeyer's characterization is a model of understatement and professional restraint.
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