Elmhurst Station Past Present and Future (Reopening)

The Railroad's view on stations such as Elmhurst and Union Hall Street is that their trains do not have the capacity to carry riders to these City stations. During the commission hours there simply are no seats for more people for the local stations.

Also the costs of opening these things would be huge.

Clem

From the black and white photo above, it appears that the LIRR tracks are in the street?
Was the LIRR electrified at the time the station was moved? Was the track layout through the area prior to the elevation of the tracks similar to afterwards?

As for Elmhurst station on the PW branch, I don't see a need to reopen it. It would probabaly slow speeds and lengthen travel times on the branch and it would probabably be a stop that can only platform 4 cars like Forest Hills, which may cause confusion. A 12 car platform would probabaly be cost prohibitive and not worth it. Besides, for travel to Manhattan, there are the R and V trains one block away (taking at most 15-20 minutes to reach the first stop in Manhattan). The G is officially supposed to run from 8:30PM to 5:30AM weeknights and all weekend, but construction of the platforms at Queens Plaza and Roosevelt Av keeps service from running lately. The E runs late at night local. Coming the other direction, there is the 7 train, which can be taken from Woodside or Flushing. It doesn't make sense to create new stops where subway service is sufficient already. LIRR could have more service serving eastern Queens, beyond the subways, but the LIRR has many other important priorities.

I was suggesting re-opening Elmhurst(along with Winfield and Corona) as a way to relieve the crowding on the 7.

Also, this came up on subchat, but instead of extending the 7, I suggested running more frequent local service between NYP(or LIC) and Bayside(which has a MOW yard that I guess could be used to store a few trains) and allowing for 24-7 use of city ticket on those trains. These local city ticket trains would be the only ones serving the 3 stations mentioned above.

4 Express: You're correct. Union Hall Street is about a mile east of Jamaica Station. I stand corrected.

NIMBYkiller wrote:I was suggesting re-opening Elmhurst(along with Winfield and Corona) as a way to relieve the crowding on the 7.

Also, this came up on subchat, but instead of extending the 7, I suggested running more frequent local service between NYP(or LIC) and Bayside(which has a MOW yard that I guess could be used to store a few trains) and allowing for 24-7 use of city ticket on those trains. These local city ticket trains would be the only ones serving the 3 stations mentioned above.

I don't see a point of reopening Winfield, but otherwise I agree with you, I also think that Rego Park & Woodhaven should be reopened.

KLCS:

I tried to post this earlier (9:30 am), but a power failure at work knocked us off the internet!

Regarding the old B&W photo of Jamaica (looking north), the tracks are not in the street. What you are seeing is the entire track area planked over. This allowed passengers and crew to walk across the tracks to the various platforms that were erected over the years without tripping over the rails or getting their feet caught between ties, etc. This was a typical practice used at many terminal areas in those days. (Railroad crossings were also planked.)

The track configuration at "Old Jamaica" was much different before the elevation. The site of "New Jamaica" was once a large lay-up and storage yard. There was even a turntable where Washington Street crossed the tracks via one of the many iron bridges.

When the tracks were finally elevated and the new facilities opened in 1913, the site of "Old Jamaica" became the Union Hall Street station to appease the residents of that area who now had lost their depot.

While Jamaica was elevated, UHS remained below grade with the tracks being crossed by the previously mentioned iron bridges at grade and stairs leading from the bridge down to the platforms. It was not until the Jamaica Improvement East Project of 1929-30 that everything out to Hillside was elevated.

Yes, there was 3rd rail through "Old Jamaica" starting with the inauguration of electric service (1905) of lines that HAD to pass through Jamaica (i.e. Flatbush Ave. to Rockaway Park, Flatbush Ave. to Jamaica, Jamaica to Belmont Park, Jamaica to Queens Village and Jamaica to Valley Stream in order of progress that first year.)

Between 1905 and 1913 additional electric service was inaugurated.

BTW: That depot at "Old Jamaica" was actually the South Side Railroad's Jamaica depot, located south of the LIRR main at Beaver Street. The LIRR had a smaller depot in use on the LIRR Jamaica site and when they acquired the SSRR, moved the South Side’s larger Jamaica depot from Beaver Street to a short distance adjacent to the LIRR's smaller Jamaica depot (May, 1877), discontinuing the SSRR’s duplicated station stop at the same time.

Both structures stood side-by-side for a number of years, the larger depot also serving as a lunch room and bar. Over the years, the smaller depot was removed or razed. By the time 1913 arrived, the SSRR’s depot was THE main LIRR depot in use.

Dave Keller

I agree with you, 4 Train, on Woodhaven and Rego Park. Those 2 stations should definately be reopened.

Congressman Crowley and and Councilman Dromm think so.

“Reopening the Elmhurst Station will go a long way toward revitalizing the Elmhurst community and growing Queens’ economy,” said Crowley. “This is more than an investment in improving residents’ commutes; it’s about making Elmhurst a destination for all New Yorkers and visitors. Councilman Dromm and I are joining forces in calling on the LIRR to join us in making this idea a reality. The truth is Elmhurst residents already endure the noise and inconvenience of a train running through their neighborhood, why shouldn’t they enjoy the benefits of it becoming an integral part of the neighborhood?”

The Elmhurst Station, which sits on the Port Washington Branch, helped the communities of Elmhurst and East Elmhurst grow and thrive by opening up access to Midtown Manhattan. The station was closed due to a reported decrease in ridership following significant changes to train schedules that made the station unattractive to commuters. Since the station’s closure, Elmhurst’s growing population has suffered from a lack of efficient public transit into Manhattan. Reopening the Elmhurst Station will increase residents’ access to Midtown, help create jobs in the community, and provide an economic boost to the many small businesses in the area.

<Facial expression of extreme doubt> The Alchemist was a daily commuter on trains that stopped at Elmhurst morning and evening for a few years leading up the closure (and for quite a while after). Typical passenger volume for any given train was between zero and two, probably averaging less than one. Hardly justifies rebuilding and maintaining a station, I think.

Growing population? Lack of alternative transportation?
When Elmhurst closed, it was the same as it is now, fully developed. Its queens after all, has been fully developed since before WW2. The Flushing line, number 7 train is a few blocks away. There are bus lines that go through there too.
I forget the exact number, but i think the daily ridership at Elmhurst was only 50 or so when it closed. Thats all day, all trains combined.
At the time the 7 train was a lot cheaper then the LIRR, and as elmhurst is mostly lower middle class, to middle class even as it stands now, I doubt many new riders will be attracted.
Perhaps with the East side accsess the RR will attract more riders, right now I personally dont think spending millions to rebuild elmhurst is the way to go, the RR has more pressing needs, like more Diesel coaches.

The IND Elmhurst Avenue station (M/R) is directly underneath on Broadway.

Might as well resurrect Corona while we're at it. Lived there circa 1950, and even then there were only a handful of trains making the stop daily. The Flushing #7 IRT trains make the stops west of Flushing redundant.

The Port Washington Branch is the super express version of the 7 Train. If you wanted to get to Shea or U.S. Open in 20 minutes (for the higher fare), it's the choice.

No joke, before I worked for the RR, I worked for a couple of insurance companes. To go from bayside to Lower manhattan on the bus and subway was an hour and a half to 2 hours.
Number 2 or 3, then the LIRR? 40 minutes. I did not make much, so when i had nothing planned after work i took the bus and subway. When I had to get home to go out after work i took the RR. Used to have ten trip tickets.

Don't hold your breath on this one. Like most politicians, this one is openly lying to his constituents. The Railroad informed him that there is no capacity for additional passengers on peak branch trains and that rebuilding the station to ADA standards would cost $31 million. He knows it isn't happening but continues to ham it up for the fools who he hope vote for him.