Elephant Style

So where did the term engines operating "elephant style" come from? And if they're operating back-to-back, what style is THAT?!

Back to Back..... thats the term we use there buddy.

Circus elephants march one behind the other tail to nose. See here -> Elephant Parade.

I've never heard anyone at work say that, All you'll here is "there all west/east facers" ..." a back to back set".... "mixed... or a non back to back set". If "elephant style" ever got said in the yard office im pretty sure they would then be subject to a kick in the privates. We dont talk like that.

no Caring Understanding Nineties Type'S there then ???

Simply: back in the days of cab units like Alco PA's and FA's, and the EMD E's and F's, usual connections were back to back with "A" unit cabs facing opposite directions. But when all "A" unit cabs faced the same direction, like circus elephants tail to trunk, it became elephant style. I don't know if it was used as a technical term, but I think I first encountered it in TRAINS Magazine in the late 60's or early 70's when such practice came into more common use. I am guessing that a Burlington or Union Pacific were more likely to have started the style but know that EL used it quite early. The most important factor was that there had to be recepticles in the nose of cab units so that such an MU'ing was possible.

Rockingham Racer wrote:So where did the term engines operating "elephant style" come from? And if they're operating back-to-back, what style is THAT?!

You gotta remember, that stuff the railfan community uses isn't what we use. I've been coast to coast, and border to border, and I've never heard that term used by a railroader. Railroaders don't care how they are faced, or spaced. What's the lead unit, and what will we have to run on the way back. I have noticed consists all facing the direction of travel, but my thoughts weren't about the circus. I was more curious about how they came to be that way, and if they had a plan to use the engines on a return trip. For stuff that goes back and forth, no matter the distance, it seems easier to have the ends facing away from each other.

I did hear the term used around the EL. But as I noted, the real test was whether or not there were recepticals in the nose for mu control jumpers. As trains rolled through the 60's into the 70's, there were fewer and fewer places to turn units around...no turntables, no wyes...so "elephanting" was probably "accidental and incidental". Soon it became obvious to some that in any locomotive consist there had to be the first and last units cab facing out. Aestetics and pride also took a nosedive as non railroader management and other neophytes only cared about getting a job done. Often locomotive consists put together elephant style for these reasons would arrive at their destination and had to be "backed" up to a place for turning because no one thought about it!

GOLDEN-ARM wrote:

Rockingham Racer wrote:So where did the term engines operating "elephant style" come from? And if they're operating back-to-back, what style is THAT?!

You gotta remember, that stuff the railfan community uses isn't what we use. I've been coast to coast, and border to border, and I've never heard that term used by a railroader. Railroaders don't care how they are faced, or spaced. What's the lead unit, and what will we have to run on the way back. I have noticed consists all facing the direction of travel, but my thoughts weren't about the circus. I was more curious about how they came to be that way, and if they had a plan to use the engines on a return trip. For stuff that goes back and forth, no matter the distance, it seems easier to have the ends facing away from each other.

Ya know. As a railroader, I have to say (and this is not to be unkind) when I read this, my reaction was, "ELEPHANT STYLE??????? WHO gives a rat's ***?" Why would it be important? What is important is moving the freight over the road in the safest and most expeditious manner possible! Which-a-ways the engines are facing is only something a railfan would care about----kinda like "on the point" and a whole bunch of other terms that only foamers and TRAINS readers would use! I think professional 'roaders would agree that there's a LOT of alleged "terms" used by fans that the REAL railroad folks become perplexed at upon hearing them! I'd be the first to admit that some of these words the fans use, I've never heard.

Gadfly

I echo the posts above; "Elephant style" IS NOT used in the industry. However, I have heard the term "covered wagon" used to describe the EMD cowl body units purchased by the Canadian roads (SD40-2F, SD50F, etc).

When inquiries are made regarding how a consist lines up, the units are identified as "facing" east, west, north, or south.

The removal of turntables and wyes years ago has complicated swapping locomotives around freely. The railroads started buying the "roadswitcher" style cabs/carbodies, with low short hoods, and dumping their cab units of the F,E,PA,FA variety to escape the need for turning them around for use on the next train. Once the cab units were gone, for twenty years the railroads were free to run locomotives either forward (short hood) or reverse (long hood) and removed all these pesky turntables and wyes. The advent of wide-body / safety cab units and Auxiliary (ditch) light requirements have brought the railroads back to the days of cab units; the nature of modern "dedicated forward direction of travel" locomotives are operationally the same as having 4000HP F-units running around now. Two steps forward, one step backwards. And now, all those turntables and wyes are long gone...

Typical exchange over the radio nowadays:

A westbound train with two units "elephant style" is asked which way their second unit is facing, in order to give the unit up to a disabled eastbound train...

DISPATCHER: "ABCD-1, which way is your second unit facing, over?"

ABCD-1 CREW: "The wrong way (for your purpose), OUT."

They also gave us train orders that read kinda like this:

"Order # 401

"C & E All Starting, Yard and Yardmaster
AND Engines 5005 and 5236 Coupled" (the first one referenced being the one in front--none of that "on the point stuff, either! ) This was your originating "running order" that authorized the train to go to work

This told us that Engine 5005 was the one in front . In all my years of copying and handing up orders, I never heard any reference to elephants----or snakes, or dogs, or spiders! LMAO! Where they got all those "elephants" is beyond me---unless the circus train was in town!

Gadfly

Weird as normal identification of engines is just lead one.
Even if 10 locomotives are coupled and fully MUed they are considered one locomotive, identified by lead unit, for Rules /FRA /Union purpose

UPRR engineer wrote:I've never heard anyone at work say that, All you'll here is "there all west/east facers" ..." a back to back set".... "mixed... or a non back to back set". If "elephant style" ever got said in the yard office im pretty sure they would then be subject to a kick in the privates. We dont talk like that.

I realize that. Didn't mean for anyone to get bent out of shape! Just interested in getting a little info is all.

It's a funny thread there buddy, we all enjoyed it.

I did actually see a memo from CNOC in Delaware in regards to turning the California Zephyr in Reno and in Denver. It was mentioned that the units would be back-to-back on certain runs and elephant-style on others due to the train make-up in other terminals. This was brought about as a result of the turn-around point having or not having a wye or turning facility. The preferred method on the long-hauls is "elephant-style" so that if the leader cannot be used any longer en-route, the second motor can switched around in a jiffy.