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  • EL history book recommendations?

  • Discussion relating to the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, the Erie, and the resulting 1960 merger creating the Erie Lackawanna. Visit the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society at http://www.erielackhs.org/.
Discussion relating to the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western, the Erie, and the resulting 1960 merger creating the Erie Lackawanna. Visit the Erie Lackawanna Historical Society at http://www.erielackhs.org/.

Moderator: blockline4180

 #552551  by Otto Vondrak
 
I'm looking at several EL titles I'd like to add to my library. Can someone please tell me a bit about the following volumes? I'm interested in things like historical content, maps, photo quality, printing quality, things like that.

The Erie Lackawanna Story, by Paul Carleton

Erie Lackawanna Memories, by Preston Cook

Erie Lackawanna: Death of an American Railroad, by H. Roger Grant

If anyone has any other suggestions for books with EL history (minus "picture books" like the Morning Sun volumes already in my collection), I'd like to know about them.

-otto-
 #552565  by D.Carleton
 
I would agree with your choice of selections in the order listed… of course I may be just a tad biased. The Erie Lackawanna Story as published in 1974 brought the tale from the earliest photographed vestiges of the Erie and DL&W through the merger. The maps contained were copies of the official company maps as published in the Railway Guides. Since the author was a professional lithographer the photos and print quality were as close to perfect as could be achieved in the early 1970s; he would not have it any other way. The EL was a cash poor and pride rich railroad and every frame of its then contemporary operation prove this for all to see. Only Preston’s book comes close to eclipsing the photo quality whilst adding the narrative of one who experienced the EL from the inside as well as a fan. Mr. Cook also included maps, current to the date of publication, denoting the disposition of lines. Add to these Mr. Grant’s historical volume and you obtain a full picture of the life and history of my dearly departed EL. It was this final volume which tells the complete story and explains why the EL could not survive as a corporation, which for me did finally bring a sense of closure.
 #552883  by Matt Langworthy
 
Otto Vondrak wrote:I'm looking at several EL titles I'd like to add to my library. Can someone please tell me a bit about the following volumes? I'm interested in things like historical content, maps, photo quality, printing quality, things like that.

The Erie Lackawanna Story, by Paul Carleton

Erie Lackawanna Memories, by Preston Cook

Erie Lackawanna: Death of an American Railroad, by H. Roger Grant

If anyone has any other suggestions for books with EL history (minus "picture books" like the Morning Sun volumes already in my collection), I'd like to know about them.

-otto-
For historical content and printing quality, Grant wins my vote easily. It really gives a good profile of the Erie's history and goes quite in depth on EL. This book also makes a strong case for the preservation of the EL outside of the Conrail orbit. It even quotes Bill Burt of the LA&L.

I like Cook's tome, but I think you'll find it akin to the Morning Sun picture books... although it does have a few short chapters of text. Cook basically covers the early '70s (and a little bit of the early '80s for ex=DL&W MUs), making it more limited in scope than Grant's book.
 #552887  by henry6
 
Depends on what you have. And what you're looking for. If you don't have the Tabers' three volumes or Stauffer's ERIE Power you may be missing a lot of history and whys and wherefores of EL. And as noted, a lot of today's books are more picture books than histories. But those you mentioned are great for starters.
 #552915  by Steamtown Observer
 
Matt Langworthy wrote: For historical content and printing quality, Grant wins my vote easily. It really gives a good profile of the Erie's history and goes quite in depth on EL. This book also makes a strong case for the preservation of the EL outside of the Conrail orbit. It even quotes Bill Burt of the LA&L.

I like Cook's tome, but I think you'll find it akin to the Morning Sun picture books... although it does have a few short chapters of text. Cook basically covers the early '70s (and a little bit of the early '80s for ex=DL&W MUs), making it more limited in scope than Grant's book.
Personally, I think Grant's book represents a lot more personal opinion than hard facts. At the time it came out it was actually panned in the academic community. While not EL specific I think a good starting point for anyone interested in what happened to northeastern railroading is Rush Lovings "The Men Who Loved Trains".
 #553023  by PCook
 
It is nice to find that ERIE LACKAWANNA MEMORIES has achieved some visibility as a book, but Matt's observations come close to pointing out something about it that has pretty much been forgotten with the passing of time.

ERIE LACKAWANNA MEMORIES was not originally written as a book. It was in fact a written conversion of the narration of a frequently shown slide show, that was first put together following the demise of the railroad, and was subsequently made into a synchronized music-tape-slide program in the early 1980s (hard to believe that was 25 years ago). It was shown very extensively during the 10th anniversary of the passing of the railroad in 1986. It had quite a few showings in the Northeast at that time, and was the first program shown at the first Eastrail event.

There were enough requests for a printed version of the tape slide program that it was decided to try to adapt the narration and as much of the format as possible to a book. The primary difference between the book and the slide show is that there was room for less than half of the slide show images in the 128 page book format, people who saw the slide show after they got the book often commented about that. It was the first all-color book published by Old Line Graphics and came out at just about the same time as TIDEWATER TRIANGLE, which was the first of the Morning Sun books.

For the 30th anniversary in 2006 the program was converted to PowerPoint and was shown again to groups that requested to see it. I think the PowerPoint version is actually the best of all, the captioning and flow are improved, you don't have to lug around two projectors and a slide sync unit, and there is never any trouble with slides getting stuck in the projector gates because the images are all electronic now.

Before anybody writes to me inquiring about future showings of the slide program please let me point out that no further showings are planned. I have gone almost entirely back to writing and have cut down substantially on doing lectures and programs. It is much too expensive now to make long driving trips to show slides. In this situation the time is much better spent researching and writing magazine articles since the audience is much larger and the method of presentation is more permanent. The only situations where I am likely to do any programs in the future are for Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania or the Railroad Museum of New England, if either of them needs me to do something for a special event.

I don't get much chance to participate in internet discussions any more, so I would like to take this opportunity to say thanks to all the groups that hosted showings of EL MEMORIES, INSIDE EMD, and all my other programs over the last 35 years.

PC
 #553514  by pablo
 
I can endorse the Grant book, too, for what that's worth. I thought it was well-done, and a good read, espeically for me, since I didn't understand a lot of the underlying politics at the time.

I have read and discussed with others how it isn't good, because it's such a "basic" book. I'm inclined to disagree with that.

Dave Becker
 #554922  by Otto Vondrak
 
Just picked up Erie Lackawanna Memories from a friend. What a fantastic record of the EL in its last years. As the book is described, "end-to-end and day-to-night" coverage of the EL system through the lens of Preston Cook. Each chapter opens with a careful introduction bringing the reader quickly up to speed on the operations and equipment of the EL. What's more, Mr. Cook gives some insight into the methods used for some of his spectacular night photos... I hope to share more soon...
 #559237  by jmp883
 
Otto,

I don't have the book by Paul Carleton but I have the other 2 and can definitely recommend them. Of course I have all the Morning Sun EL, Erie, and DLW books and the Bob Pennisi book on the EL before Conrail. These are not true history books in regard to text but they are worth having for their photo content.

As has already been posted the Taber series of books is an excellent addition if you can find a set. I know you said you were looking for EL books but having grown up in Clarks Summit, PA, on the DLW mainline, I'm obviously a DLW/EL fan so I also have these books in my library that might interest you:

Lackawanna RR In Northwest New Jersey by Lownethal & Greenberg. This was published by The Tri-State Railway Historical Society in 1987. An excellent historical account of the DLW in NJ with superb photos and well-written text.

Lackawanna RR-Superpower Railroad Of The Northeast by LeMassena. This was published by TLC Publishing in 1998. This book covers the superpower steam era of the DLW and is also loaded with superb photos.

Good luck in your search......

.....now maybe I should start looking for some Erie history books now that I've lived for years in Wanaque, NJ-the end of the Erie's Greenwood Lake Branch.....
 #560649  by Matt Langworthy
 
Steamtown Observer wrote:
Matt Langworthy wrote: For historical content and printing quality, Grant wins my vote easily. It really gives a good profile of the Erie's history and goes quite in depth on EL. This book also makes a strong case for the preservation of the EL outside of the Conrail orbit. It even quotes Bill Burt of the LA&L.

I like Cook's tome, but I think you'll find it akin to the Morning Sun picture books... although it does have a few short chapters of text. Cook basically covers the early '70s (and a little bit of the early '80s for ex=DL&W MUs), making it more limited in scope than Grant's book.
Personally, I think Grant's book represents a lot more personal opinion than hard facts. At the time it came out it was actually panned in the academic community. While not EL specific I think a good starting point for anyone interested in what happened to northeastern railroading is Rush Lovings "The Men Who Loved Trains".
Exactly whom in the academic community panned it Grant's book? I found it it to be quite factual, as I did further research on the story of the EL. As for the opinios expressed in the book, Bill Burt is no lightweight. Nor would I discount the opinions of insiders like Perry Shoemaker, Robert Fuller and Harry Silleck- all of whom worked with EL in some capacity. Their insights really give life to a story that would otherwise be devoted to drab statistics and legal documents.

I agree that "The Men Who Loved Who Loved Trains" is an interesting read, but it's mostly about Penn Central and the Chessie System... so it treats the other northeastern RRs like an afterthought. The book is not a recommended read for someone who wants to learn about EL.
 #620777  by Caseyjim
 
I have published a looseleaf book on Erie Lackawanna that is packed with a wealth of information on the Erie Lackawanna. Passenger train consists, sample freight schedules, a division by division tour of the railroad from east to west is a unique feature. Photos include train No.15 loading passengers for Buffalo, timetables, other illustrative memorabilia.Timetables, a system map, freight train blockings, etc. are all found within its nearly 100 pages. Price of 15.00 includes shipping. Anyone interested in one e-mail me at [email protected]. PayPal OK.
 #621680  by erie2521
 
Somebody mentioned "Between the Ocean and the Lakes, The Story of Erie" by Edward Harold Mott, 1908. This book has been digitized by Google. This has two advantages: (1) The price is right and (2) No storage problems.
Google has also digitized two other books that should be of interest:
"Chapters of Erie and other Essays" by Charles F. Adams, Jr. and Henry Adams, 1871.
"The Book of Daniel Drew, The Fisk-Gould-Tweed Regime from the Inside" by Bouck White, 1910. This is about Drew's life of which the Erie is a part (circa 1857 through the Civil War) and I found fascinating his account of the origin of the Erie's financial troubles.
Another book that covers the life of Jay Gould including the Erie in about the same time frame is:
"Dark Genius of Wall Street" by Edward J. Renehan, Jr., 2005.