E40 (Former Pennsy E40, Former NH EP5 "Jet"

from a friends slide trading

more from 1975

and another

hey NOEL this one got hot! last one from my hbg trip in 1975.

The last picture looks to me like the 4971 which was the one that had the bad fire in the Park Avenue Tunnel which caused the ban of the motors in passenger service to take place.
When these things were running right, they did a good job on a heavy train but unfortunately they were very trouble prone and when this happened, it often tied up the railroad at a bad time. There were things that I liked about them and there were things that I didn't like about them.
Noel Weaver

RDGTRANSMUSEUM wrote:here are more that were badly faded slides. note "soul train" lettering.

LOL!

I have photos of 4973 with similar writing (but not that big in lettering).

green_elite_cab wrote:

lvrr325 wrote:Based on the pantograph removal and the lettering, it appears they were modified to only have one operational cab? Note the pan, road number and a small "F" all on the same end of the shots of the '73 and '77 above (although, oddly, the engineer's side of the '77 has the number at the rear). Normally a unit that can be operated in either direction is marked F1 and F2 at each end.

However, They don't put more than 1 set of Fs. I've collected a bunch of prototype photos of E44s (Dual controlled), GG1s, none of them have more than one set of Fs. Why would you put another set of Fs? that could create confusion, especially if the 1 or 2 wasn't readily visible. All you need is one F. If you don't see the F, you can assume its not the front at just a glance.

Look, I'm not making this up. Some roads designated dual-control units with an F1 on one end and an F2 on the other end, because depending on which control stand the engineer operates from, either end can be the front for operating purposes (IE the position of the reverser in the cab). It appears this was not a Penn Central practice. But I have seen it done. http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/emd/sw1200m/sw1200m.html - Reading did this: units were marked F1 at the front and these SW1200M's carry only a 2 at the rear. I believe the unit I recall seeing with an actual F2 on the other end is a Reading GP7, but none of the shots on that site are clear enough to show the markings.

The last I knew it was a federal requirement that the letter "F" appeared on the designated front of the engine. There can only be one front even on a double ended engine and today there are no more two cab double ended diesels that I am aware of at least in the US. I spent my entire working career on locomotives and I never saw any locomotives with an "F" on more than one end.
Noel Weaver

We were told on Conrail that there is only F1(front) and 2 (rear) on a locomotive,this is right from rules class. The Reading did not have any units with F2 on them,ever. The confusion of having "F2" would result in many incorrect hand signals by the crews.

As Noel Weaver has stated before, all locomotives have only one "F" end (as per CFR 229.11a) where the opposite end without lettering is designated the "B" end.


§ 229.11 Locomotive identification.
(a) The letter ‘‘F’’ shall be legibly shown on each side of every locomotive near the end which for identification purposes will be known as the front end.

That assumes that everyone in the crew is too stupid to comprehend #1 from #2 and agree which one is F for the purposes of that day's operations, which was the correct procedure with those locomotives. Which I suppose is possible, there certainly were as many dumb guys working for the railroad as smart ones. Be it obvious to everyone, or should they be self-important know-it-alls that are never wrong and always have an answer for everything. It's not worth arguing with the latter.

lvrr325 wrote:That assumes that everyone in the crew is too stupid to comprehend #1 from #2 and agree which one is F for the purposes of that day's operations, which was the correct procedure with those locomotives. Which I suppose is possible, there certainly were as many dumb guys working for the railroad as smart ones. Be it obvious to everyone, or should they be self-important know-it-alls that are never wrong and always have an answer for everything. It's not worth arguing with the latter.

The "F" is on locomotives as a FEDERAL requirement. As to a double end locomotive, the end the engineer is presently operating from is the head end in so far as signals, hand signals, switching moves etc are concerned. Whether the engineer is operating from the "F" end or the other end with a double ended electric motor is irrelevant to how hand signals etc are used in the move. If the reverse handle is in forward he/she is moving forward and if it is in reverse he/she is moving in reverse. Of course it is always worthwhile knowing what end you are operating from because on electric motors some things are on the number one end and some on the number two end.
Noel Weaver

I think lvrr325 is confused! Those "1" and "2" marks are to delineate No. 1 end and No. 2 end and appear to be old RDG common standard identifiers. New York Central also used a system to identify right and left sides of a locomotive; these requirements were on the paint diagrams furnished to the builders by the railroads. However, there are NO "F no. 2" markings. It's No. 1 end and No. 2 end ONLY. No. 1 end corresponds to the front of a locomotive, and on that end you'll find the mandated "F" marked by it.

Look at this big clear pic from one of my favorite sites -- Fallen Flags, by George Elwood -- and you'll see the 1 and the 2 and also the mandated F.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/rdg/rdg56s.jpg

You can find a large number of the RDG units on his RDG diesel photos page that show these end identifier numbers. Again, to be clear, these markings have nothing to do with the FRA mandated "F" mark. They're specific to the RDG - although there certainly may have been another road or two that used something similar.

-Will Davis