Dual Mode Locos Dangerous in Tunnels ?

It seems to me that the interior of the coaches are far more flammable than the diesel fuel.

The risk is you'd execute 1,800 people - all the passengers on a train

How big a train would you need to carry 1,800 pax? Even if they were all multi-level cars?

Maybe if there was another train in the tunnel behind it that gets stuck too. I think they are really playing worst case scenerio here.

CJPat wrote:It seems to me that the interior of the coaches are far more flammable than the diesel fuel.

The risk is you'd execute 1,800 people - all the passengers on a train

How big a train would you need to carry 1,800 pax? Even if they were all multi-level cars?

If its standing room only? 9 Comets would do the trick. It would be crowded to be sure, but packed trains are not uncommon. Especially some trains between NY and Secaucus.

Just a point about diesel fuel and its flash point. The fuel pumps on diesel motors pump at a constant rate.....when the motor is not running at full governed speed, the fuel not being used is pumped back into the tanks. As this fuel is pumped through the system, which is part of the motor, it is heated before returning to the tank......the normal diesel engine temp. under load is 150 degrees or hotter, depending on the air temp. During prolonged use the temp. of the fuel in the tank(s) can be raised to the point where it begins to vaporize. That vapor can easily ignited by a spark, which, for example, is why there are sometimes fires when a unit is involved in a wreck and a tank is ruptured.

CJPat wrote:It seems to me that the interior of the coaches are far more flammable than the diesel fuel.

The risk is you'd execute 1,800 people - all the passengers on a train

How big a train would you need to carry 1,800 pax? Even if they were all multi-level cars?

Dude, 1800 people is nothing! A comet and now Multilevel can sit about 110-120 people (more or less depending on model). A 12 car train of say MUs, would be roughly 1440 SEATED (and on the NEC, they aren't afraid to use the center seat. On a real crowded train, you can have about another 100 people standing in each car (roughly double the number seated). So thats nearly 2900 people on a 12 car MU set that is packed to the gills. Most "normal" crowded trains that are 12 MUs probably have about 1600-1800 people on them, as there might be a good number of standees in a few cars, but not the whole train.

Thanks for the replies guys. I guess, I just wasn't considering the standing crowd.

Another source of diesel fuel, at least many years ago, were the diesel diners some long distance trains had. They used to stink up Penn Station when I worked there.

I have a video of the LIRR F-9's being used in dual mode. Electric in the tunnels, and sometime after coming out of the tunnel, in Queens, the diesel engine is started. This is done when the train is still moving. Fairly smooth operation, with no problems.

The concern is the length of the tunnel, 5k is several miles. How long are the north river tubes?

I recall the tunnel fire in Baltimore several years ago. That was freight and no one was hurt. But it came close to being a real mess.

Before the AEM-7s and E-60s, the G motors used to pull HEP generator cars through the NY and Baltimore tunnels. Those cars had diesel gensets and large fuel tanks; another example of diesel engines and diesel fuel in the tunnels. I'm sure the tanks were bigger than those on a G.

Many passenger cars had propane engines for electricity and AC, years ago. I'm not a firefighter, not up on what is more flammable, or what has a lower flashpoint, but it seems to me that the propane would be more dangerous than diesel. I've read lots of signs on the highways regarding propane in tunnels and on bridges, yet nothing restricting diesel trucks and busses-

pennsy wrote:I have a video of the LIRR F-9's being used in dual mode. Electric in the tunnels, and sometime after coming out of the tunnel, in Queens, the diesel engine is started. This is done when the train is still moving. Fairly smooth operation, with no problems.

Yeah, about one in ten times!

That set was called the 'Bi-Tanic' by regulas, since it was so unreliable. Typically, you swapped at Jamacia.