DreamStar Lines - New Private Overnight Passenger Service LA - SF

Dreamstar Lines - its home page. No links to other pages. Still aiming at LA-SF in 2025.

Report: Dreamstar Lines Signs MOU With UP for Coast Line Track Access - Railway Age
MOU = Memorandum of Understanding

Dreamstar has to negotiate track access with Union Pacific, Metrolink LA, and Caltrain.

“We’re in talks with both and working towards acceptable terms for track access,” said Dreamstar CEO Joshua Dominic. “Both have been wonderful to work with and communicated interest toward getting our trains rolling.”

UP only acknowledges entering into "formal negotiations".

Passenger accommodations: “a range of classes, from economy roomettes to deluxe first-class staterooms.” So its rolling stock will be much like Amtrak sleeper cars. The trains will also include “app-based arrangements for tickets, on-board food, beverage and hospitality services,” Ordered from one's room? Or will one have to go to a snack-bar car? Also, “last-mile” transport - can one call for taxi / Uber / Lyft service?

Another California passenger rail project clears another hurdle

The sleeping cars would have private rooms and beds that allow riders to lie completely flat. Deluxe accommodations would offer queen beds, “upscale trim,” and en-suite showers. All passengers would have access to high-speed internet and food and beverage service.

Los Angeles to San Francisco overnight train a step closer to reality

The company is also exploring an "add-on auto transport service" allowing travelers to bring their own cars on board to make travel even easier once they arrive at their final destination after the overnight journey, but did not give further details.

A service like Amtrak Auto Train? That will require some autorack cars and passengers driving their cars into and out of these railcars.

What other stops would this proposed LA - SF train make? Both ends of the line are sprawling urban areas, so I'm guessing Burbank and San Jose.

As to travel time, the Caltrain Baby Bullets do SF - SJ in one hour, though with 6 stops along the way, and the Amtrak Coast Starlight does SJ - LA in 10 hours, though with 8 stops along the way. They add up to 11 hours, while the Dreamstar scheduled time is 10 1/2 hours, a little bit less.

If this route is successful, then Dreamstar may start other routes, in the US and elsewhere.

I considered some other routes, like NYC - Chicago, Chicago - Dallas, Chicago - Miami, but they are almost a full day, making them unsuitable for night trains.

Presumably, they would own/lease their own sleeping cars, bar cars and diesel locomotives, possibly HEP generator/baggage cars if they use freight locomotives, or combine the bar car and generator/bag into one car. They would contract the operation & maintenance to someone - Amtrak, UP, JPBX/Caltrain/Herzog Transit Services, SCAX/Metrolink (apparently operated by Amtrak + Bombardier for equipment maintenance). Attendants could be employees of DreamStar or the operator.

Liability insurance. Since this would be one of many passenger trains on the line I assume they just use Amtrak or Herzog and it is bundled in.

Is there track platform space at LA and SF for the train to sit for an hour plus at morning rush hour? How much to "rent" track space?

Valet would load cars into car carrier(s) for transit over highway. Seems impractical to use regular passenger terminals and have auto carriers on the same train. I suppose they could be coupled after departure, but still awkward.

Reminds me of Boston Surface Railroad, but with the population density of southern CA and traffic DreamStar has a much better chance of success.

Imagine when the environmentalists find out about the diesel emissions from an old locomotive pulling about 62 passengers!

BandA wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 11:26 am Is there track platform space at LA and SF for the train to sit for an hour plus at morning rush hour? How much to "rent" track space?
Valet would load cars into car carrier(s) for transit over highway. Seems impractical to use regular passenger terminals and have auto carriers on the same train. I suppose they could be coupled after departure, but still awkward.

Yes, unloading auto racks at downtown passenger stations would be extremely awkward. More likely a suburban rail yard will be needed with ramps for loading and unloading the cars, with a small passenger station near. That's assuming they go the autorack route like Amtrak's Auto Train. If so, they would not need access to the Caltrain or Metrolink corridors.
Very difficult to give an opinion without further details over their plans.

I think the Autotrain concept is oversold on routes like this - unless one is travelling for more than a week and is also targeting suburban/exurban destinations. Assuming Amtrak's $285/car is market rate (and we can, because we are told AT is profitable), that's $600/round trip. That's a lot of rental cars when it's ~$80-120/day for a rental to drive around the suburbs. Those going downtown can ride BART or use Uber/Lyft.

In the end it might make a lot more sense to run an overnight train with a day or two of rental car baked into the price and a stop somewhere like San Jose and Bakersfield to let suburban travelers on and off, with a rental car in the parking lot.

https://ktla.com/news/california/compan ... gn-trains/

Company behind proposed overnight train between L.A. and S.F. hires firm to design trains


A company looking to use existing tracks to provide luxury overnight train trips between Los Angeles and the Bay Area has announced another crucial step toward the project becoming a reality.

On Tuesday, Dreamstar Lines, a Newport Beach-based transit startup, announced it had hired a design firm to create initial concepts for its rail car interiors and exteriors.

Designworks, a subsidiary of the BMW Group, has been tasked to design the future Dreamstar train cars, which will include first class suites with bedrooms and restrooms, standard cars with seating and bedrooms, and lounge cars with open seating and a bar.
...

All they really need to do is contact a passenger car Railfan. There are tons of plans available.

No doubt Designworks charges top dollar, and the materials they will specify are top dollar as well. At what point does this train price itself out of the market? A private room is currently $285 roomette/ $630 bedroom on the current Starlight on Jan 21 (1.5 mos out), and if we accept the current wisdom, that doesn't even cover operating costs let alone capital. So what is a market rate fare for sleeper, $500/750 or so?

Given that that this is supposed to be a business traveler tool and not a Belmond-type experience, I have a lot of questions about how this works financially. It seems first class fares on the same day for the airlines are about $150-250 for a 90 minute ride, plus a night at the Mark Hopkins is $250.

I'd love to see this work but it seems they are equipping a Belmond-level train for bankers and lawyers who normally travel on a slightly slimmer budget. A lot of lawyers I know fly Southwest anymore as their clients do not want to pay first class unless it's a really big affair.

Tadman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 02, 2024 10:51 am
I'd love to see this work but it seems they are equipping a Belmond-level train for bankers and lawyers who normally travel on a slightly slimmer budget. A lot of lawyers I know fly Southwest anymore as their clients do not want to pay first class unless it's a really big affair.

Tad, we need a beer or two together, sooner than later. . I submit that while the cost of tooling won’t be cheap, having Almstom build new generation Budd standard cars (think 1950s ATSF equipment, using the corrugates stainless roofing material will give an excellent car shell.

Next, build some of the cars as sleeper lounges, with each room having handicap access. Yes, that means a wider corridor, wider vestibule doors and interwar passageways. The Pullman Compartment would be the starting point.

Build the remaining cars as the old reliable 10-6. Strip out two traditional roomettes, give them showers.

The only issue is California overnight or whatever it’s called next week must buy from Almstom. They are the owner of record of Pullmans, Budds, and ACFs plans at IRM. Even so, engineering costs can drop dramatically, and the design of these cars is time and field tested.

Using the old car designs may take a lot of engineering to meet new regulations and passenger comforts.
1. Bigger windows for emergency egress hopefully that would not require different vertical posts or locations.
2. No axel generators with DC instead all electrical AC HEP. All new wiring designs as to meet national electrical code.
3. Eliminate all steam heat pipes instead add dual modern HVAC With all different ducting. Hopefully duct work does not require changing any vertical supports
4. Redesign of vestibules no Dutch doors but probably automatic sliding doors that will need no vertical framework in their pockets.
5. New full design of walkways between cars with better walkways and weather resistant bellows such as those are now being added to new Siemens cars.
6. MU cable connections for loco control, car control, fiber optic and other cat 6 type cabling connections between cars, Raceways for all of those each will need separation around HVAC.
7. Car lighting and control wirings.
8 Car announcement system(s).
9. High speed trucks that are rated at 125 and tested to 138 MPH.
10. Retention toilets
1`. All the above will mean a different empty weight and max load weight. Does that require a stock truck or will a new one need to be designed?

So, you think using old car designs is a no brainer? Just the car shell (maybe with just few mods) design? That might save 6 months. With all the items above requiring openings on the cross floor beams they may need more strength.

#9 isn't needed unless the builder designs their equipment to be able to compete for potential Amtrak business in the NEC (I think a builder making sleeper cars designs for North America would be a fool to not design for that market at this time though).

Alstom? The same folks who couldn’t deliver Acela 1 properly and can’t do it with Acela 2 either? Those folks?

The Acela 1 was a consortium of Bombardier and Alstom, with BBD having 75pct.

Alstom has a decent track record on other projects including Surfliner cars and the overhaul of the Califoria Cars. For that matter BBD did fine on the Superliner II contract.

If this procurement leans on proven designs it has a better chance. Assuming it moves forward at all. I'm not sure who would bankroll this business plan as it sits today.

Tadman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2024 11:55 am I'm not sure who would bankroll this business plan as it sits today.

Not I. For the bigs, they’ll hop their Gulfstreams, the working professionals will fly Southwest.