Does NJT still have "tin cans" in service?

Hello all, haven't been to the NYC or NJ area in a few years and I was just curios as to whether or not NJT still had any of the old "Tin can" trainsets in service? Looking at a few photos taken in Hoboken and by Hunter on the NEC, they were numbered in a 1200 series.

Thanks in advance.

I believe those are Arrow II's. They now use exclusively Arrow III's, numbered in the 13xx, 14xx, and 15xx series.

Yeah, the 12xx were the AIIs. They are all gone except for one married pair which hangs around the MMC. Tin Cans huh? That's a new one for me.

The "Tin Cans" hold a special place in my part being that when I was in kindergarten, I was allowed to "pilot" one on the Gladstone with the help of the engineer. Lots of fun. That cab ride was one of the highlights of my childhood. I have the photos of this. If I ever get them scanned, I'll show 'em to y'all.

The Arrow IIs on the Hoboken side were awful. I used to ride them frequently between Hoboken and Broad Street. Pieces of junk !

Granted the Arrow II's had their teething pains, but once past that they were very good. The Arrow III's were much better, they had the benefit of improving the short comings of the A-II's. Don't forget the A-II's were run hard, they were replacing a very aged MP-54 Fleet. Now the piece of junk you should be referring to were the A-1's. The were junk from day one, as a matter of fact a couple of them burned from defective on-board battery systems while in storage. They never ran well, broke down, doors that open on their own at speed, all types of good things. The A-II's were light years better than the A-1's. I rode them all over the years, MP-54's, A-I's, A-II's, and A-III's. I understand the A-II's were never rebuilt because it would have been to expensive to bring them up to A-III standards. Another interesting fact, the A-III's were seeing limited service for years because the Morris & Essex hadn't been coverted from DC to AC yet. By alternating units, they prevented any units from running up excess miles before the M&E line was available to them.

^Well, during this time, weren't the A3s used on the NEC and NJCL?

The Arrow IIIs were used on the Morris and Essex Lines after the re-electrification up until the mid to late 80's. The Arrow IIs were common on the NEC and NJCL during that time. When the A2's began their downward spiral in the mid to late 80's, they were swapped with the Arrow IIIs on the NEC and NJCL. The Arrow IIs ran on exclusively on the M&E until the late 1990's.

The arrow Is being junk doesn't surprise me. They were Westinghouse equipped, and frankly, "Circle W" really couldn't produce a decent propulsion

The arrow Is being junk doesn't surprise me. They were Westinghouse equipped, and frankly, "Circle W" really couldn't produce a decent propulsion system back then (Their version of the Metroliner was a total disaster - a flaw in the system caused them to pop substations - their fix was to have the PRR modify every substation (at the PRR's expense?!?)). Ironically, the competing GE proposal was to use the PCI control system that was on the Silverliner II/III cars - which even then had a reputation for great performance and great reliability.

The Arrow IIs being sucky is surprising - does anyone have any REAL detailed info on what the typical failures were? BTW - the IIIs had a diferent propulsion system from the IIs.

transit383 wrote:The Arrow IIIs were used on the Morris and Essex Lines after the re-electrification up until the mid to late 80's. The Arrow IIs were common on the NEC and NJCL during that time. When the A2's began their downward spiral in the mid to late 80's, they were swapped with the Arrow IIIs on the NEC and NJCL. The Arrow IIs ran on exclusively on the M&E until the late 1990's.

CORRECTION - When the A2's began their downward spiral in the mid to late 80's, they were swapped with the paired Arrow IIIs and ALSO augmented with diesel sets and the few self propelled 1300 series Arrow IIIs.

^Diesel sets?

The Arrow II's may have been junk, but they were memorable pieces of junk! I remember riding one in 1995 and I felt water dripping down from the ceiling. Not only that, but the bolted stick rail around Chatham curve shook those cars which made it feel like you riding in an old DL&W MU!

When NJT moved the paired Arrow IIIs (e.g. 14XX, 15XX series) off the M&E to the NJCL/NEC the following equipment back filled the void:

1. Arrow IIs
2. diesel push pull sets
3. those Self Propelled versions of 13XX series Arrow IIIs

I rode all of these to/from college in 1989-1991 before moving on campus.
The Arrow IIs were very crappy ! I do not miss them.

The AIII's were used on the NEC and Jersey Coast, some were even leased to Amtrak. This helped prevent units from just sitting outside Harrison in storage waiting for Morris & Essex repowering. I rode the AII's from their introduction up until 1978, and saw the introduction of the AIII's. I do remember seeing techs on board in the early days, there was a light display in the center vesibule show the power path, seems to been problems of motors cutting out during acceleration, they were constantly going car to car resetting them. You could tell when they cut out as acceleration was about halved at times. They pretty much had everything corrected after the first year, the problems seemed to happen in the earlier built cars. Once the got everything straighten out, the cars were generally good performers. There were many runs where they clocked 100, they had great acceleration up to about 85. They other problem they had was with extreme cold, around the teens and especially single digit cold, more so if it was an extended cold snap. I remember in the mid seventies we had a multi-day cold snap that was in the single digits and the AII's were dropping out in droves. Since I never saw the AIII's in similiar type weather, I don't know if they were prone to freezing cold weather as well. I will admit the AIII's seemed less prone to problems from day one.

NJT should have ordered 300+ Arrow IIIs.