As much as I would love to say "yes"..
I have to say no..
I know its unclear, and could be argued either way.. but from my perspective, the D&H hasnt existed since 1990..or whenever the official CP takeover was...
Hey! check this out!
I figured out a way to find old messages!! :D
its a "Google cache"..
you search for a topic, and if google finds an old railroad.net topic that fits, you cant open the actual page, because it is gone, you you CAN open the google cache of that page!
Im going to post this on the main forum!
lets see if this works..
here is the former discussion on this topic:
old railroad.net thread
Scot
Railroad Forums
Do you,in your opinion,think the D&H still exists?
- Discussion relating to the D&H. For more information, please visit the Bridge Line Historical Society.
Moderator: MEC407
Why can't we put this to rest? My 2003 W2 from informs the IRS that I am employed by the Delaware and Hudson .
I have lobbied before to have the forum listed as "active", but truthfully, as has been stated before, the D&H is somewhere in between. I actually might classify it as an "inactive" railroad, at least in the corporate sense, rather than a true fallen flag. Yes, the D&H still exists on paper, but legally, it is structured as the Delaware & Hudson Railway Company d/b/a (doing business as) Canadian Pacific Railway. For internal tax and legal reasons, CP continues to leave them in existence as a separate entity, but they haven't done one single thing to promote or market the D&H as it's own entity, save for the 4 Lightning Stripe units that they have repainted (7303, 7304, 7312, and I think the 4th one was 7309, although I'm sure someone can correct me if I'm wrong), 3 of which remain. The CP website does justice to its own history, but really does an injustice to the heritage and history of the D&H. I guess that's why we have organizations such as the BLHS and the NRHS.
Ok Kurt, you asked for it 
7307, 9, and 12 were not repainted by CPR. They were done by MK while under NYSW I believe?
3 and 4 were done by CPR (bastardized D&H lightning stripe) and so was 12, in a pretty good paint job. And if you think about it, 12 is CPR-ized even more so because of the number. The only original 38-2 in Lightning was 7322, which is today's 7309. I still don't understand why they were renumbered! Locomotive numbers and paint schemes don't really matter when a company might be in trouble and employees worrying about their job, but that being said I really wish they still had their original numbers.
Wishing I have money to purchase one sometime in the future when they are retired and restore it to Lehigh or D&H...
7307, 9, and 12 were not repainted by CPR. They were done by MK while under NYSW I believe?
3 and 4 were done by CPR (bastardized D&H lightning stripe) and so was 12, in a pretty good paint job. And if you think about it, 12 is CPR-ized even more so because of the number. The only original 38-2 in Lightning was 7322, which is today's 7309. I still don't understand why they were renumbered! Locomotive numbers and paint schemes don't really matter when a company might be in trouble and employees worrying about their job, but that being said I really wish they still had their original numbers.
Wishing I have money to purchase one sometime in the future when they are retired and restore it to Lehigh or D&H...
(Bowing my head in shame)
That's what I get for trying to write an answer "on the fly" instead of looking it up.
That's what I get for trying to write an answer "on the fly" instead of looking it up.
In my opinion the D&H Railway still exists but mainly on paper.
I can back up Engineer Spike on that one about the W-2's and not to mention the D&H Railway name on my Deposit Notification form.
I believe the D&H exists also for the trackage rights over their foriegn railroad routes (such as NS, CSX,CSA and others) to the outlying ports and terminals.
I also believe that the D&H would recieve more money for rail projects from the state and govt. than if the D&H would not exist at all.
And last of all, some of us cannot adapt to calling ourselves the CP over the radio. Even though this is a rule violation I still call us as the D&H.
Just my opinion.
I can back up Engineer Spike on that one about the W-2's and not to mention the D&H Railway name on my Deposit Notification form.
I believe the D&H exists also for the trackage rights over their foriegn railroad routes (such as NS, CSX,CSA and others) to the outlying ports and terminals.
I also believe that the D&H would recieve more money for rail projects from the state and govt. than if the D&H would not exist at all.
And last of all, some of us cannot adapt to calling ourselves the CP over the radio. Even though this is a rule violation I still call us as the D&H.
Just my opinion.
A lot of good points in this post.
One other thing that seems to give the D&H almost eternal life has been the level of pride the pre Guilford company, and the workers right on throughout all other ownership, have shown. I was too young to really remember the D&H Adirondack, but upon reading Doug Lezette's recent book on D&H passenger service in the 70's, I came to realize just how much those guys cared about their image. An example was throwing a fresh coat of silver paint on the trucks of the PA's so they'd look nice for a VIP event, or the D&H shields on the blazers of the train crews. The little details meant a lot.
Now, before someone points out that the D&H was receiving money for the Adirondack, I understand that, and realize that it had to be a factor, but it wasn't just the money. With the possible exception of the Twentieth Century Limited, even a mighty railroad like the New York Central didn't seem to have quite that level of pride among their employees in the final years of the company. The D&H has been described to me as a family by those who worked there, and it shows in the level of care that traditionally was D&H. All of this seems lost on CP, and while I understand that bringing in a bunch of aging passenger equipment and giving it a fresh coat of paint didn't make a dime for the D&H in the 70's, and wouldn't now, it does create a very positive image of the railroad in people's minds.
I think many railroads have been hanging on to their fading status as major political and economic powerhouses, but that is starting to change. I think of the recent arrests of locomotive crews over idling engines as a major example. I have to believe that 50 years ago if a local cop had tried to arrest a train crew, he had a very good chance of having the railroad police show up and arrest him for trespassing. You simply didn't do those kinds of things to railroads in those days. Nowadays, the perception is that railroads are hiding behind the FRA, refusing to answer to the localities through which they pass. They do just pass through most of them now, having merged and becoming essentially long distance haulers, and having ripped out the majority of their local sidings years ago.
It seems like now, the tide may be turning, and I agree with the comments above that I would much rather try to negotiate with NY, PA, and the local municipalities as the D&H rather than CP. I always hear the comment that it doesn't matter what paint is on the locomotives. Well, those of us on the outside looking in don't have much else of an image to go by in most cases. Right up through the 70's and even beyond, the D&H could do no wrong in the eyes of NYS. That is long gone under CP. That's my biggest criticism of CP - that loss of prestige that really could have been preserved so much better without a lot of expense or effort. Guilford certainly didn't have any prestige (unlike their predecessors, the B&M and MEC), and I was hoping for a little better from the guys up North, but things like abandoning the Albany Main and de-emphasizing the D&H name aren't going to help their cause in the long run. Not in this neck of the woods, anyway.
Sorry for the long post. Maybe this new laptop wasn't such a great idea...
One other thing that seems to give the D&H almost eternal life has been the level of pride the pre Guilford company, and the workers right on throughout all other ownership, have shown. I was too young to really remember the D&H Adirondack, but upon reading Doug Lezette's recent book on D&H passenger service in the 70's, I came to realize just how much those guys cared about their image. An example was throwing a fresh coat of silver paint on the trucks of the PA's so they'd look nice for a VIP event, or the D&H shields on the blazers of the train crews. The little details meant a lot.
Now, before someone points out that the D&H was receiving money for the Adirondack, I understand that, and realize that it had to be a factor, but it wasn't just the money. With the possible exception of the Twentieth Century Limited, even a mighty railroad like the New York Central didn't seem to have quite that level of pride among their employees in the final years of the company. The D&H has been described to me as a family by those who worked there, and it shows in the level of care that traditionally was D&H. All of this seems lost on CP, and while I understand that bringing in a bunch of aging passenger equipment and giving it a fresh coat of paint didn't make a dime for the D&H in the 70's, and wouldn't now, it does create a very positive image of the railroad in people's minds.
I think many railroads have been hanging on to their fading status as major political and economic powerhouses, but that is starting to change. I think of the recent arrests of locomotive crews over idling engines as a major example. I have to believe that 50 years ago if a local cop had tried to arrest a train crew, he had a very good chance of having the railroad police show up and arrest him for trespassing. You simply didn't do those kinds of things to railroads in those days. Nowadays, the perception is that railroads are hiding behind the FRA, refusing to answer to the localities through which they pass. They do just pass through most of them now, having merged and becoming essentially long distance haulers, and having ripped out the majority of their local sidings years ago.
It seems like now, the tide may be turning, and I agree with the comments above that I would much rather try to negotiate with NY, PA, and the local municipalities as the D&H rather than CP. I always hear the comment that it doesn't matter what paint is on the locomotives. Well, those of us on the outside looking in don't have much else of an image to go by in most cases. Right up through the 70's and even beyond, the D&H could do no wrong in the eyes of NYS. That is long gone under CP. That's my biggest criticism of CP - that loss of prestige that really could have been preserved so much better without a lot of expense or effort. Guilford certainly didn't have any prestige (unlike their predecessors, the B&M and MEC), and I was hoping for a little better from the guys up North, but things like abandoning the Albany Main and de-emphasizing the D&H name aren't going to help their cause in the long run. Not in this neck of the woods, anyway.
Sorry for the long post. Maybe this new laptop wasn't such a great idea...
I know the D&H exists "on paper"...but far too little of the D&H exists now.
What I see now, looks nothing like the great and proud road I once knew.
I feel bad for the employees. The D&H, like the other Northeastern roads, were taxed to death. If the tax structure that exists now were in place back in the 70's....they would have had a fighting chance to still be around.
What I see now, looks nothing like the great and proud road I once knew.
I feel bad for the employees. The D&H, like the other Northeastern roads, were taxed to death. If the tax structure that exists now were in place back in the 70's....they would have had a fighting chance to still be around.
I heard unions and excessive crew sizes put a stanglehold on the D&H. I have always been fascinated how the D&H survived the 70s and did not get tossed in to ConRail.
It sure ain't the D&H I remember from my youthful days watching LONG freights with rear end pushers claw their way up Richmondville Hill in the 1970's! I have fond memories of old smoking ALCOs and GEs tackling the hill. I wish I still had some of the pictures I took back then. Probably weren't the best quality taken at 10 or 12 years old but oh the memories. My parents still live in the area and I get to see some interesting CP and NS lashups, but its nothing like the D&H. I now have to travel to Horseshoe Curve and Sand Patch to see helper action like that!