DL-109 "Electro-Diesel" Conversions & Procuring The FL-9

Anybody know how far the proposal to convert the DL-109s into dual modes actually got before they were deemed too heavy for the Park Ave. Viaduct? And did the NH on their own consult EMD after not having any luck with F-M and ALCO or did EMD get word of the NH's interest in a dual mode and made their sales pitch with the modified FP9 design in hopes that the NH would be won over?

NH2060 wrote:Anybody know how far the proposal to convert the DL-109s into dual modes actually got before they were deemed too heavy for the Park Ave. Viaduct? And did the NH on their own consult EMD after not having any luck with F-M and ALCO or did EMD get word of the NH's interest in a dual mode and made their sales pitch with the modified FP9 design in hopes that the NH would be won over?

With regard to the DL-109's there were both weight and clearance issues in Grand Central Terminal that prevented the operation of these locomotives in to New York. It did not go very far, maybe just talk amoung management at the time. In addiltion the DL-109's were at least three quarters worn out by this time and it would have required a huge sum of money to accomplish anything of this nature.
As for the FL-9's, Fairbanks Morse actually predated the FL-9's with the two engines for the Talgo train that ran in to New York before the FL-9's were on the property, I did not say that they ran good in to New York but they did run in to New York.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:As for the FL-9's, Fairbanks Morse actually predated the FL-9's with the two engines for the Talgo train that ran in to New York before the FL-9's were on the property, I did not say that they ran good in to New York but they did run in to New York.
Noel Weaver

Ah I forgot about the P-12-42s (I know the B&M also had a pair for the Speed Merchant). Those sure were an improvement in looks over the Dan'l Webster

(No nit too small to pick!) Speed Merchant was the Fairbanks - Morse marketing name for the Talgo power, not the name of a B&M train. On the B&M, the Talgo was used to fill many assignments, including local commuter runs.

PBM

ferroequinarchaeologist wrote:(No nit too small to pick!) Speed Merchant was the Fairbanks - Morse marketing name for the Talgo power, not the name of a B&M train. On the B&M, the Talgo was used to fill many assignments, including local commuter runs.

PBM

So noted. I honestly thought it was the name given to the whole trainset (in spite of even Wikipedia defining it as the name for the locos )

And just as a side note I will say that in both cases the McGuiness livery suited both RRs units quite well. Even the Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton RP-210s IMHO looked rather sharp in their NH livery which is saying something considering their not-so-attractive shape

When did the DL109 rebuild idea come up? Was it under McGinnis? I have heard that McGinnis had big ideas of pulling down the wire ( reason for dual modes) and replacing the diesel fleet with all EMD. This part didn't get that far since EMD could not supply 60 GP9s and because NH didn't have the cash/credit.

Engineer Spike wrote:When did the DL109 rebuild idea come up? Was it under McGinnis? I have heard that McGinnis had big ideas of pulling down the wire ( reason for dual modes) and replacing the diesel fleet with all EMD. This part didn't get that far since EMD could not supply 60 GP9s and because NH didn't have the cash/credit.

I believe it was while McGinnis was in charge. There's a brief mention of it in Diesels To Park Avenue, but nothing more. But as Noel said earlier they were too heavy, too large (loading gauge wise) and were just too worn out by then; even though they hadn't been in service for more than 15-20 years.

Yes McGinnis did indeed intend on de-electrifiying everything but the GCT-STM commuter services (Harlem River Branch too?). Thankfully that never came to be. Ironically, the branch to Bay Ridge in Brooklyn was re-electrified in the early 1960s.

The NH in fact planned on ordering 58 additional FL-9s for the second order with EMD, but the ICC would only grant them a loan large enough for 30 units. So units 2060-2087 will always be the "could have, but never were" "phantom" units

As for the GP-9s IIRC the NH actually wanted 120 GP-9s, but instead settled for 30(?) GP-9s and 15(?) ALCO DL-701s (RS-11s) and 15(?) F-M H-16-44 Trainmasters.