Denver Area Light and Heavy Rail (RTD) systems

So what? You obviously don't know trains that well.
Ask a certain Metro North Engineer how good that feature works.
Ask a Certain Amtrak Engineer how good that feature works.

So i ask again, what if the [RTD]engineer faints?

BlendedBreak wrote:So i ask again, what if the [RTD]engineer faints?

The train should stop however long the timer on the deadman switch is set.
How long do you think it would take a conductor in the last car of the train to realize the engineer had fainted, and how long do you think it will take that conductor to reach the cab and apply the brakes? I would like to suggest longer than the deadman switch timer.

BlendedBreak wrote: This is a commuter line so the conductor will most likely have to collect fares on board, but since RTD has none...
... This will not apply.

There is no correlation between being a commuter line and having the conductor collect fares. Caltrain doesn't (AFAIK) have conductors collecting fares (from which it doesn't follow that they don't have conductors on board). Indeed, of the systems west of the Mississippi, I believe only Metrolink (with almost certainly the worst safety record among that set of systems, if not the worst safety record in North America) has conductors doing fare collection.

BlendedBreak wrote:

bdawe wrote:So what if the Engineer faints? That problem was solved a very long time ago by deadman switches, and even if the engineer in the train behind him faints too (perhaps some weird gas floating out of the old' Rocky Mountain Arsenal site?), the PTC is going to prevent the trains from colliding.

So what? You obviously don't know trains that well.
Ask a certain Metro North Engineer how good that feature works.
Ask a Certain Amtrak Engineer how good that feature works.

So i ask again, what if the [RTD]engineer faints?

For the Metro North engineer (assuming we're talking about Spuyten Duyvil), he didn't faint, and PTC didn't work because there was no PTC.

For the Amtrak engineer (assuming we're talking about Frankford), there was no PTC either (and the NTSB documents thus far released don't say anything about him fainting).

Also of note: both of those trains had conductors on board. Both conductors failed to prevent the trains from taking curves too fast and crashing (indeed, from skimming the NTSB documents, there's no indication that either conductor had an idea something was wrong).

How long is it going to take for a conductor to notice that the engineer has fainted? They're not checking in on the radio constantly (e.g. every few seconds). The conductor will probably notice after they skip a station (and maybe after they blow by a signal), but by then, there's a decent chance that the train will have already crashed.

BlendedBreak wrote:As i just explained to the other user that displays a similar level of ignorance; "The Conductor will almost always radio or IC the engineer to ask why they are no longer moving, or if close enough will enter the operating cab. Its that simple. "
These RTD trains are not 3 miles long they are married pairs like SEPTA. Thats about 170 feet from head-end to rear-end. You try to insinuate that conductors are adults with special needs as they wouldn't be able to tell from how the train is moving or not moving that something is wrong.
You two are idiots.

You don't have to attack us personally with insults. Boooooooooo!

And besides stopping the train, what more can a qualified conductor do that a fare enforcement officer or passenger could do? Passengers are equipped with smart phones today, and surely they could call 911 for help. Passengers are capable of providing first aid, possibly even more qualified to do so. Passengers are capable of handling fire extingushers, knocking out windows and opening doors. And I'm sure a fare enforcement officer can be shown how to stop a train.

It's obvious you consider everybody else an idiot, but I trust anyone of us can do a proper job in an emergency if given the opportunity.

In the scenarios you've described, the conductor only knows somethings gone amiss after the train's safety systems have brought the train to a halt, and for events like Spuyten Duyvel or Frankford, the PTC system operating on the RTD Line provides a measure of protection against speeding-related accidents that was not then available. What the others were trying to understand is how the conductor's presence aboard the train would contribute to accident-avoidance beyond that already provided by the safety systems. A conductor being available after the fact to help seems nice to have, but it didn't make the difference in whether or not there was an accident if the conductor doesn't know if anything's wrong until after the safety systems have kicked-in.

Beyond that particular realm, it strikes me as difficult to believe that one-man-operation cannot be safely done in Denver when it's done every day around the world at equal or greater levels of safety than found in US passenger railroading.

BlendedBreak wrote:

leviramsey wrote:How long is it going to take for a conductor to notice that the engineer has fainted? They're not checking in on the radio constantly (e.g. every few seconds). The conductor will probably notice after they skip a station (and maybe after they blow by a signal), but by then, there's a decent chance that the train will have already crashed.

As i just explained to the other user that displays a similar level of ignorance; "The Conductor will almost always radio or IC the engineer to ask why they are no longer moving, or if close enough will enter the operating cab. Its that simple. "
These RTD trains are not 3 miles long they are married pairs like SEPTA. Thats about 170 feet from head-end to rear-end. You try to insinuate that conductors are adults with special needs as they wouldn't be able to tell from how the train is moving or not moving that something is wrong.

You brought up Spuyten Duyvil and Frankford Junction. How exactly did conductors stop those crashes?

Topic moderated.

I'll try this again:

Has anyone ridden the line?

Comments and verbal insults about the use or non use of conductors are great and all,but I'd like to know what it's like to ride the line and how many people are using it.

I noticed from watching a news report online that the automated announcements feature the same voice as the one featured on the MBTA Commuter Rail.

Another opening coming up: B Line to Westminster opens July 25 That's a Monday, but there may be pre-opening festivities in the weekend before it.

Construction to start on SE Rail Extension in May The FTA has awarded the project $92 million, with the rest of the project's $233.1 m cost coming from local sources.

From what I've seen of the Denver commuter-rail lines, they seem like they will be separate from freight-rail tracks for most or all of their lengths. I'm sure of this for the Airport Line, and pictures of construction suggest this for the Gold Line. The North Metro Line may be an exception, however, though it may only have branchline traffic.

World Wide Woodard: Lessons from Denver's transit triumph

Denver did a number of remarkable things to make it happen: foster cooperation across a vast metropolitan region, convince a skeptical public to increase taxes to build it, and when budget and expense forecasts collapsed in the face of the 2007-2008 financial collapse, create the nation's first large-scale transit public-private partnership to get much of the system built.

But the biggest lesson learned: the greatest benefit of the system isn't relieving traffic congestion, it's the revolution in land use the stations and lines catalyze. Denver had to discover this along the way, but other cities contemplating major expansions can take advantage of what they learned.

Salvation And Missed Opportunity: Metro Denver Train Expansion | CPR -- has an audio interview with him
The Train That Saved Denver - POLITICO Magazine -- discussing in detail the civic context of the city's rail-transit development.

The story started in 1973, when some Denverites became worried that their city was becoming too much like Houston, sprawling and smoggy. A region-wide solution required region-wide cooperation, and the politicians decided that their municipalities would not be trying to poach businesses from each other. The first line opened in 1994, from downtown southward along Interstate 25. It was much more successful than anyone expected and it was extended to Littleton in 2000. Then FasTracks was passed in 2004, succeeding where a similar measure failed in 1997. It even survived the Great Recession of 2008.

At first, the system's designers thought of it as an alternative to cars. Thus, the E line running in I-25. But they later decided that it was better for encouraging car-optional economic development -- transit-oriented development.

But there are still parts still in planning.

The only segment that wasn’t funded was a 35-mile rail connection to Boulder and Longmont, northwest of the city. “That corridor is still the one we get thumped on the most,” RTD’s Donovan says. “But it’s the most challenging project because it will cost $1.1 to $1.4 billion to build.”

The only big one, that is. There are still some small unfunded segments, like the southwest one, the central one, the end of the North Metro line, and the double-tracking of parts of the Airport Line.

Colin Woodard is a journalist who has written about a lot of things, and this is the first time that I know of that he's written on rail-transit planning.

I had a chance to ride the Denver RTD A line round trip from the airport to Union station. It takes about 45 minutes. There are 6 intermediate stops. It's $9 including unlimited trips for the day. From union station I used the free 16th street mall buses. Was in Denver for two days and never used a car.

The train is well used. Each set has three cars each with nice luggage racks. The platform is just outside the terminal. Go straight towards the hotel, through the arch and you are there. Ticket vending machines at the airport are on the platform. In union station the machines are at the end of the platform not on the platform.

Top speed is 79 mph per my GPS. The line runs along an active runway so you can race airplanes.

Mr. Hochman, the last time I was in Denver with a need for public transportation to.the Airport was July '08 in response to a Service "buddy" who was in a "bad way" (since deceased).

I recall the bus rides into town and back to the airport, and even then I thought they were efficient. It sounds as if this RTD line is an improvement over what I saw as quite adequate service.

The airport terminal has one platform with two tracks but there's clearly space for another platform to be added later. Some of the intermediate stops have ongoing development projects. One has a big parking area, remote parking for the airport. Many of the riders were airport employees. About half appeared to be travelers with luggage.

I found the train to be much simpler than hunting for a bus. There were digital displays telling how long until the next train left. Departures seemed to be every 15 minutes.

As information: effective yesterday the SEPTA Silverliner V's are subject to a 50-mph speed restriction because of broken truck stabilizer bars on a large number of cars. Watch the SEPTA forum for developments.