CSX Acquisition of Pan Am Railways

So gents, should there be any thoughts of both Chessie's and Topper's engines getting ready to each handle a, say, 75 car InterModal train out of Saint John on somebody's FRA (equiv) Class 4 road?

Or did Mama Cass perform a good one?

Cosakita18 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 4:09 pm I'm also very puzzled by what CSX could possibly want with the MEC. Sure there's the vague possibility of IM from Saint John and a bit of room to grow with forest products and maybe mill traffic, but as mentioned the time and resources required to get the MEC up to Class 1 spec and eliminate clearance issues for stacks is pretty daunting.

When it was rumored that CP was buying the CMQ, most people were baffled. Nobody could see any traffic that could be gained from such a transaction. Well when Cornelius (the CP beaver) went before the STB, he promised all of these wonderful things, intermodal and autos to Saint John, potash to Searsport, 40 mph track, and new motive power. Now all those things are bearing fruit. CSX clearly sees something in Pan Am, and if Chessie is the winner, she will strut before the STB declaring all the benefits of a CSX-PAR/PAS merger.

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:33 pm So gents, should there be any thoughts of both Chessie's and Topper's engines getting ready to each handle a, say, 75 car InterModal train out of Saint John on somebody's FRA (equiv) Class 4 road?

Or did Mama Cass perform a good one?

Irving might say "ok Chessie and Topper pony up a big check for all these upgrades if you want to run intermodal up to Saint John."

You are right about the surprise of CP returning to ME.

Still, I’ve been closely tracking NE industry and railroads for 40 years and it’s been mostly continued decline in traffic volumes and service.

There is some chance that csx wants to pursue intermodal at SJ. But man, that seems like a long shot with CP having a huge head start. It would be years before csx could run a timely double stack from the Irving interchange in Maine to Worcester. And csx serves NY/NJ where the big ships will still call. I give better odds to csx running oil trains of US crude to Irving than running intermodal.

NS has shown minimal interest in NE intermodal. The Ayer ramp is undersized and no real investment has been made there. NS never made a move to buy out The other half of PAS and nobody has been willing to enlarge the tunnel. I just cannot see NS paying for that.

But we will see.

As Mr. F7 immediately notes "We shall see".

I think we all know "they ain't dumb" at either 500 Water or 1201 Peachtree. They have to see some lucrative traffic source we don't. Otherwise, why beat each other over a road that, away from where the public trough provides FRA Class 4 for passenger trains, roundly an FRA Class 2 that has had all the deferred maintenance "savings" sucked away.

Somebody knows something we don't; It ain't Conrail where "men who love trains" took a moribund property and "made it a target" because they made it viable.

People who think that Maine is devoid of any traffic remember that there are two pairs of daily manifests in and out of RIgby yard in District 2. Also, there is vastly more potential of traffic that Pan Am over the years has soured, not to mention failed attempts at getting intermodal traffic... take a drive on i95 or 295 in Maine and you'd be enamored with the number of trucks on the road. Name of the game is highway to rail conversions and the regional intermodal reach out of Worcester barely scratches the surface.

I am aware of that truck traffic and the attempts to do intermodal at Waterville. I assumed that the poor service was a big factor with that not working out. What about the cn service to auburn? Cn offers good service, at least way better than GRS/pan am. Was it traffic imbalance of loads in vs loads out? I truly hope to see someone succeed in ME and, if it’s csx, put large volumes of traffic on a rebuilt Worcester route main since that happens to be my sentimental favorite stretch of track in the country

Gilbert B Norman wrote:As Mr. Train Guy notes, this could prove exciting. Hope "our hands up that way" like Messrs. O'Keefe and Newpylong agree.

Exciting is probably an understatement with regards to any situation which suddenly results in two Class I railroads serving Maine via the former MEC.

With regards to Saint John I'm confident there won't be any issues there. NBSR will be just as happy to serve one railroad as they would be to serve three. Saint John in this case ends up with four railroads serving it (CP, CSX, NS and CN). CSX, NS and CP would all access the port via NBSR. That is a pretty radical growth proposition if it works out. I can't imagine there is a port anywhere in North America with four Class Is serving it.

Setting this admittedly "wild" scenario aside I remain utterly mystified by CSX's stated interest. Predictably NS claims there's an issue at hand. My sense here is we are watching a game of three dimensional chess using only two dimensional vision. As has already been said there are a lot of things going on here including potential new traffic opportunities which we probably have no idea about.

The steamship lines could be moving the dial here in ways we can't even imagine.


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gokeefe wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:18 pm Saint John in this case ends up with four railroads serving it (CP, CSX, NS and CN). CSX, NS and CP would all access the port via NBSR. That is a pretty radical growth proposition if it works out. I can't imagine there is a port anywhere in North America with four Class Is serving it.

New Orleans has 6 Class Is serving it, UP, BNSF, CSX, NS, KCS, and CN.

gokeefe wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:18 pm My sense here is we are watching a game of three dimensional chess using only two dimensional vision. As has already been said there are a lot of things going on here including potential new traffic opportunities which we probably have no idea about.

Let's think about it. What traffic would CSX gain from owning Pan Am? Intermodal and oil trains to Saint John is a possibility, so is intermodal to Portland. Remember that CSX has a much different network from CN. (Could that be a reason for the failure of intermodal from Auburn?) Pan Am still serves the New England paper mills and has a decent (if declining) amount of carload traffic.

I'm a Virginian who has never ventured up there, what kind of traffic could you New Englanders see happening?

The Portland ME market itself is small. City population is less than 100k. And the intermodal at the port is a tiny space. Very small ships call there and I understand that the rail transfer facility is hardly used at all, if any. And there’s no room to expand in any significant way, Regional Intermodal options, aside from SJ, would seem to be for industrial products leaving ME or for inbound goods to truck to consumer markets in eastern New England.

F74265A wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:20 pm The Portland ME market itself is small. City population is less than 100k. And the intermodal at the port is a tiny space. Very small ships call there and I understand that the rail transfer facility is hardly used at all,

This is partially true for the container terminal, but bear in mind that Portland is capable of handling Panamax or larger tanker and bulk ships at some of its terminals. There's nothing wrong with the geography of the port itself.

I would also argue that the IMT punches above its weight a bit by being the ONLY US port of with direct service to Iceland, Greenland and parts of Scandinavia. Eimskip is serious about Portland and Its new class of 2,200 TEU ships were designed to fit at the IMT.

Shortline614 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:04 pm
I'm a Virginian who has never ventured up there, what kind of traffic could you New Englanders see happening?

Mill traffic seems like obvious low-hanging fruit. PAR is arguably under-serving the Rumford branch right now with a single train in one direction per day. With the right service and pricing... Sappi, Rumford and Jay (when it recovers) could likely increase their reliance on rail by a not-insignificant amount.

Won't CSX be getting access to something like 8 pretty big paper mills?

There are really just 4-5 major mills left in Maine at this point. Sappi Somerset, Rumford, Jay, Old Town (ish) and Woodland. But yes they are all big mills and major shippers. If I'm not mistaken Sappi Somerset is the largest paper mill in North America.

They'll also gain access to Madawaska and Saint John x2.

I am curious about the port capacity and particularly its rail access. At one time in the past, Portland Terminal served the entire waterfront and the GT had access via back cove. That’s all long gone of course. Other than the eimskip intermodal terminal, the only rail served part of the port I am aware of is sprague and Merrills on the north side. There is some rail infrastructure there but not much and little room for expansion. Is there more on the south side of the Fore River?

F74265A wrote: Is there more on the south side of the Fore River?

Turner’s Island in South Portland still has rail access, but isn’t currently shipping much.