• CSX to acquire Pan Am Railways

  • Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.
Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

Moderator: MEC407

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  by jamoldover
 
To turn things around for a minute, is it possible that this could also be an attempt by Pan Am to force NS into a different negotiating position? Right now NS has the upper hand in any Pan Am-NS discussions - maybe Pan Am is trying to up the ante a bit?
  by bostontrainguy
 
newpylong wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:26 pm There is no such mention of a Shared Asset arrangement. CSX wants Pan Am outright, which is what concerns NS.
Baby steps towards the Final Frontier of northern New England and the Port of Saint John via a New England version of CONRAIL.
  by bostontrainguy
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 9:21 pm It appears that if today's events "shake out" with both Chessie and Topper reaching Boston area on their own rails and everything East of there a "Shared Assets" arrangement, then that Rails and Ports publication, derided around here as a fake news rag, either "got awful lucky" throwing darts or had a "scoop" when they observed that Executrain joyriding about the System.
Yup. Interesting enough, there has been nothing new mentioned on their website or Facebook page.
Last edited by bostontrainguy on Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by newpylong
 
bostontrainguy wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:07 am Baby steps towards the Final Frontier of northern New England and the Port of Saint John via a New England version of CONRAIL.
Explain to me how that will lead to Conrail up here if 1/2 players won't play ball.
  by PBMcGinnis
 
I think this more of a case of "Black Beauty / Topper" overestimating the amount of leverage and poison pills they thought they had at their disposal to ward off competition from Chessie the Cat, The Beaver and The Maple Leaf. Now after eleven years of sitting on his hands and never taking up the opportunity to push their acquisitions in New England further, the Jockey is in full panic mode.
  by CN9634
 
roberttosh wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:48 pm I'm not so sure that CP can buy out the Irving roads and just unilaterally cancel ST's haulage into Saint John, nor do I think that the Irvings would want give up their main connection into the Eastern US.
Haulage rights aren’t bound or decided by the STB like trackage rights are, it’s a marketing arrangement with an agreed cost per mile so the carrier with haulage rights can quote end to end for certain commodity groups. NBSR is basically a glorified terminal RR in this respect where they are fine having PAR, CP and CN flex marketing power to drive volumes.

The biggest hurdle is STB for the 100 miles Brownville to Vanceboro, but then again what customers exist there to file anti competition cases? STB doesn’t care about Canadian customers either and the Canadians have a more lax regulatory environment. I suspect MNR could exist with track rights over CP to reach Keag and Irving properties in NB or some kind of Joint venture deal
  by bostontrainguy
 
newpylong wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 9:29 am Explain to me how that will lead to Conrail up here if 1/2 players won't play ball.
CSX says they want to buy the entire Pan Am system. NS protests claiming harm due to CSX having a monopoly in New England and stifling competition. The STB says try to work this out gentlemen. Okay, dear STB . . . how about we equally share PAR? Bingo says the STB.

It's just a process to an end. I could be wrong of course but I think it makes sense and it sure is an exciting outcome for New England railroading. CSX and NS keep and develop through traffic to their systems and extend their reach. Each only pays half of what it would cost to outright purchase PAR.

When I suggested this as an outcome a while ago, I was just speculating on what I thought would be a really positive concept but of course I felt it would probably never happen. I am as surprised as everyone else that it might actually happen. It's pretty exciting if it actually comes to fruition.
Last edited by MEC407 on Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:20 am, edited 3 times in total. Reason: excessive quoting
  by newpylong
 
I see. Interesting scenario, but not likely.

I think a more likely scenario would be NS having to finally "pony" up to purchase all of PAS to protect its investment. By doing this, with some assurances of fair access to Maine, allowing CSXT to purchase PAR outright.

This is of course if one of the investment firms still at the table don't get it instead.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
bostontrainguy wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:02 am ...Okay, dear STB . . . how about we equally share PAR? Bingo says the STB.....It's pretty exciting if it actually comes to fruition.
There we are; presuming the present PAS becomes Topper's E-W line to match the B&A. The, essentially, Maine Central and Bangor and Arrostock becomes a "shared asset" property.

Of course. Topper will have to do with a few less oats while his "trainer" pours them into the bin to match the B&A's profile.

Both Chessie and Topper now have an interest in cooperation with the Irving roads to competitively access Saint Johns. The Conrail Shared Assets gave SOO (CP) access to at least NY and Detroit, so there is a model to have them get to Saint Johns as well. Truly Shared Assets will give Topper and Chessie access to Searsport as well.

Maine has become one big Joint Facility.

New Hampshire? what's there? I guess always the possibility a passenger train agency will wish to develop service to Concord - or even Laconia.

There would also need be understanding with the several other agencies, namely MBTA and NNEPRA, as the frequencies and volume with Chessie and Topper. After all, the only reason their lines are FRA Class 4 is thanks to those agencies feeding at the public trough.

As Mr. Train Guy notes, this could prove exciting. Hope "our hands up that way" like Messrs. O'Keefe and Newpylong agree.
  by MEC407
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:00 pm Maine has become one big Joint Facility.
That is certainly how it feels in South Portland, which currently has the highest number of medical cannabis and recreational cannabis stores of any city or town in Maine.

Sorry, couldn't help myself. :wink:
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
OK, Mr. Maine Central; you're the Moderator around here.!!! :P

I could have used the term "Jointly owned Terminal and Switching Company", but at this time, who knows how the ownership will shake out.
  by F74265A
 
What’s the business case for csx ownership of even Worcester/Ayer east? Presently, there’s roughly one train a day in either direction. Bow coal trains are either gone or almost gone. Saint John is accessed already by both Canadian giants. Siphoning off any time sensitive or intermodal traffic would require a huge investment upgrading infrastructure and capacity. I am pretty sure clearance restrictions remain in addition to terrible track. Add that csx has been in retreat in eastern MA for years (granted they did basic maintenance to accommodate the trash operation in Leominster). I remain puzzled by the interest. It seems like a big investment just to keep 75 cars a day each way on the B&A
  by Cosakita18
 
I'm also very puzzled by what CSX could possibly want with the MEC. Sure there's the vague possibility of IM from Saint John and a bit of room to grow with forest products and maybe mill traffic, but as mentioned the time and resources required to get the MEC up to Class 1 spec and eliminate clearance issues for stacks is pretty daunting.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Regarding Mr. F7's immediate, the CP site seems to think they get to Saint Johns on their own rails:

http://www.cpr.ca/en/choose-rail/port-saint-john

McAdam-Saint John is some kind of haulage arrangement with the Irving road. Although in Canada, what would it be in the US? FRA Class 2, if that?
Last edited by Gilbert B Norman on Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by F74265A
 
CP definitely does not own any track in to Saint John. They even tried to abandon it before it was sold. CP has no trackage rights to operate in to Saint John either. As for haulage, I do not know their commercial deal with Irving
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