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  • CSX Acquisition of Pan Am Railways

  • Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.
Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

Moderator: MEC407

 #1563816  by roberttosh
 
I have no doubt that one of the main reason's behind CSX's interest was to protect existing ST business that could very well have been substantially diminished with a different operator.
 #1563831  by markyk
 
interesting post on Trainorders today about CN losing Maersk business at Halifax..........Starting in April Canadian Pacific wil be getting the Halifax maersk business but at the Port of St. John........

Maybe CSX is part of this scenario down the road?
 #1563833  by PBMcGinnis
 
As mentioned in this thread before....
You can be 100% assured the Irving family of businesses in Saint John are looking forward to sitting back and watching CN, CP and CSX all beat the crap out of each other on rates and service. They and the NBSR are going to out make really well for the long run. Wouldn't surprise me that 5-7 years later one of the Big 3 has "Buyers Remorse" and sees that the traffic while plentiful, is producing margins (profits) far below expectations.
Last edited by MEC407 on Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total. Reason: unnecessary quoting
 #1563836  by roberttosh
 
I think CP and to a lesser extent CN have the most to lose with CSX gaining access to the Irving empire. Much of what Irving rails on and off of its' cluster of railroads is going to or from the states, where CSX direct service is going to give them a huge advantage. CP and CN will likely still remain competitive on what if any traffic moves beyond Chicago and obviously on traffic staying in Canada. The other thing that makes CSX's acquisition of Pam Am a much safer bet is that they start off with a pretty well established captive traffic base on their route through NH & Maine to Keag (mills, LPG, grain, steel, scrap, plastics, etc), whereas for CP to be successful, with so little on-line business, they really need to somehow build upon their business with the Irvings, which again just got a lot more difficult with CSX coming into the picture, or somehow turn Searsport into a major export terminal for Canadian product.
 #1563841  by newpylong
 
I can see CP making NBSR an offer they can't refuse for the rest of the Moosehead back once it's all Class 3 (on CP's dime) and if the traffic patterns work out. Though I am fairly certain the Irvings would get every dollar out of it, if they were willing to sell.
 #1563843  by roberttosh
 
I'm no STB expert, but even if CP bought the NBSR outright, I don't believe they could just unilaterally end the ST(CSX) and CN haulage and access rights into SJ. I could certainly be wrong, but unlike the haulage that CMQ provided for ST between Brownville Jct and N Maine Jct, I think the NBSR situation is more long term and would likely have to be negotiated between all parties. Not that it would be a bad move by CP, but I don't think it will do much to increase their marketshare.
 #1563848  by Gilbert B Norman
 
If there is foundation to the report at the other site noted here by Mr. Markyk, that to me is "UUGE".

Here is the largest ocean shipping concern in the world, Moeller-Maersk, telling CN "adios". They are also telling same to Halifax - unless they plan to have anything stevidored there move by highway. Lest we forget, CN is the "only (rail) act in town".

That "offer they can't refuse" for the Irving roads serving Saint John so that Keag is no longer "the end of the line" for SOO Line (CP in the USA) will not be far away - with or without a Chessie acquisition of the MEC.

The entire "Route of the Atlantic Limited" will then be back in CP's hands.

Impact on the possible Chessie Pan Am deal? I defer to the "hands" around here.
 #1563857  by bsweep
 
I'm with Mr. Norman on this one - If Maersk is going via CP and Saint John this spring that is a big deal. That means all the power NBSR is getting from GMTX and the ex-NS SD70s really are needed. Might even mean more than 907/908 (250/251) and 207/208 will be plying the 'Keag sub. Regarding the Irving traffic and CSX/CP/CN, I've thought about this - and I can't really tell where CSX and CP would compete for traffic other than Detroit and Chicago. Both are big towns. But seriously, CSX offers Irving the US east coast (southeast) and midwest to STL, where CP offers all of Canada, MCI and MSP. It seems CN is the one who has the huge network to all those places who now has competition in both Canada from CP and potentially CSX in the dixie US. CSX can't take double stacks through Keag in it's current shape, but could work with CP to take things via NMJ (or a proxie like Irving's NBSR). I'm not sure how that deal looks, but when you throw things like the Keag line and the current PAR/CMQ (CP deal), the NBSR Mattawamkeag sub, CP capitol investment $$$$$ in exchange for running rights into YSJ (Saint John), Irving woodland and fiber train access... It all says there is the potential for some sort of creative win-win-win deal (at the behest of CN likely)...
 #1563859  by F74265A
 
Keag or nmj to Worcester double stack clearance would require quite a bit of work by csx, so cp interchanging stacks with csx at nmj wouldn’t really solve the problem. And it just seems unlikely
 #1563863  by johnpbarlow
 
Looks like Nashua would vote for CSX acquisition of Pan Am:

https://www.unionleader.com/news/safety ... 88b61.html

Couple of excerpts:
Nashua officials are optimistic that a proposed acquisition of New England’s Pan Am Railways by CSX will lead to solving the problem of frequent train derailments snarling downtown traffic.
and
...“We have talked to them [Pan Am] a thousand times about the track. Nothing happens.”

The mayor is hopeful that the situation will improve if the Surface Transportation Board approves a proposed acquisition of Pan Am by CSX Corp.

Donchess said city representatives already have spoken with CSX and alerted them to the problem...
 #1563865  by QB 52.32
 
roberttosh wrote:I have no doubt that one of the main reason's behind CSX's interest was to protect existing ST business that could very well have been substantially diminished with a different operator.
In what is arguably an anomalous play by CSX reportedly at $800m. for a sticky-wicket down south and a relatively light-density property in need of capital investment up north in total earning half the rate of revenue as their existing system has to be considered for all the possibilities at this early point.

Beyond what might be considered a more-traditional possibility, defense and/or single-line organic and truck-conversion growth of ST traffic, or a Maritimes play for BNSF North Dakota crude or container traffic into the Ohio Valley, central MA and Chicago, depending upon what happens for and against CP Ontario-Chicago, the value of defending CSX's existing non-ST traffic and/or utilizing the ex-B&M to facilitate changes within that existing non-ST franchise, and/or an infrastructure deal centered on PAS, holds at least as much potential. To write off any possibility at this early point is too soon.

For a surprise move keep open the possibility of a surprise reason behind it.
 #1563868  by Shortline614
 
Railfan & Railroad gave a few paragraphs to the CSX Pan Am sale in their March 2021 edition. It contains comments from the Maine Morning Sentinal newspaper, who said that CSX told them that the STB app would be in "soon," and from a Maine DOT official who said that it would be good if the state had a Class I railroad.
 #1563875  by PBMcGinnis
 
johnpbarlow wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 5:36 am Looks like Nashua would vote for CSX acquisition of Pan Am:

https://www.unionleader.com/news/safety ... 88b61.html

Couple of excerpts:
Nashua officials are optimistic that a proposed acquisition of New England’s Pan Am Railways by CSX will lead to solving the problem of frequent train derailments snarling downtown traffic.
and
...“We have talked to them [Pan Am] a thousand times about the track. Nothing happens.”

The mayor is hopeful that the situation will improve if the Surface Transportation Board approves a proposed acquisition of Pan Am by CSX Corp.

Donchess said city representatives already have spoken with CSX and alerted them to the problem...
To the city of Nashua, NH: Whooooopeee!!! You have nothing to really offer CSX, NS, Pan Am, or anyone else has far as new, heavy industry, that would require rail. None of the above are going to spend money investing in new track for "loose carload freight" moving through town. The demand does not justify the expense. This isn't a "chicken or the egg first" situation either for Nashua shippers. There is a history of 30+ years of industry moving out of southern and central NH. Nashua, Manchester, Concord are all old mill towns. No one is banging on the door to build a new assembly plant.
 #1563881  by BandA
 
“Some tracks have been repaired, but where the derailment happened you can see it is under water. It is really very bad. It should be put higher than it is,” Eric Drouart of Nashua said
“I am just concerned since it carries freight and tank cars,”
So, Nashuans are implying that PAR is running hazmat cargo over track that should be marked excepted, that they have done nothing about it despite complaints from the city over years, and they hope CSX has better standards. (I don't know if that is true or not but that is the sense I get from reading and regurgitating this single newspaper article). Of course the city also want passenger service new-hampshire-commuter-rail-discussion-t41734.html, so CSX could get free upgrades if they work with the city...
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