Railroad Forums 

  • Crossing the Border (Security Loophole)

  • General discussion about railroad operations, related facilities, maps, and other resources.
General discussion about railroad operations, related facilities, maps, and other resources.

Moderator: Robert Paniagua

 #975328  by bitf
 
Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, sorry if it isn't.

I live in Canada (just to prevent any confusion). A few months ago a teenage girl from a small city near where I live had a disagreement with her parents and decided to run away. She found a stopped CN train, jumped on the "porch" of a hopper and fell asleep (I don't know if she considered that the train might actually be going somewhere or just saw it as a convenient place to sleep). When she woke up the train was moving and she eventually ended up in Duluth. The local police sent her to NYC where she was turned over to Canadian officials and eventually reunited with her parents. My question is: How is it in post 9/11 world that someone can hop on a freight train and cross the border?. I was under the impression that trains where x-rayed at the border. Am I wrong?
 #975398  by Ocala Mike
 
Yes, I believe you are incorrect. Without getting into the politics or cultural ramifications regarding how we interact with our neighbors to the north and to the south, I believe that the program you are referring to is only operable on our border with Mexico. It has never been put into place as regards US-Canada.
 #977336  by gp9rm4108
 
All trains entering the U.S. from Canada are X-rayed on the two border crossings that CN has out of Winnipeg. I would assume it is similar or the same at all the other crossings too. It's hard to believe she actually got across the border.
 #977834  by toolmaker
 
bitf wrote:Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, sorry if it isn't.

I live in Canada (just to prevent any confusion). A few months ago a teenage girl from a small city near where I live had a disagreement with her parents and decided to run away. She found a stopped CN train, jumped on the "porch" of a hopper and fell asleep (I don't know if she considered that the train might actually be going somewhere or just saw it as a convenient place to sleep). When she woke up the train was moving and she eventually ended up in Duluth. The local police sent her to NYC where she was turned over to Canadian officials and eventually reunited with her parents. My question is: How is it in post 9/11 world that someone can hop on a freight train and cross the border?. I was under the impression that trains where x-rayed at the border. Am I wrong?
Really odd story. Why would you need X-ray or any scanner to see a person rinding on the outside of a hopper? I would have assumed the trains are viewed as they pass by US Customs for just this reason. Unless she found a conrer to hide on purpose.

-gary
 #978197  by bitf
 
I pulled up the original news story to check the facts. It seems unclear as to where she hid and if the reporter was just assuming that she was on a hopper train. I believe those who ride the rails the unconventional way prefer intermodals (if the graffiti they leave in bar washrooms is anything to go by). Regardless, it seems that Homeland Security is a little embarrassed.

Here's the article: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/ ... in-US.html
 #979564  by scharnhorst
 
The boarder crossing at Fort Covington, NY and the Quebec line is lax to say the most part just a small gray office that is only maned when South Bound CN Trains cross the boarder all they do there is compare a Fax that has the reporting marks and Car Numbers on it only 1 guy dose the job from a desk looking out a picture window looking West at the Main and a passing siding. The staff at the office shows up only to catch the South bounds then go's home after the train passes. There seems to be no interest in North bounds going to Canada.
 #979864  by justalurker66
 
I'm not sure I want to know about lapses in security at the borders ... the article did say that she was petite, so she would be easy to miss - but there are a lot of other small things that we don't want to miss coming over the border. Someone should have seen her ... and that someone is probably going to join the ranks of the unemployed, if they have not already.
 #979909  by scharnhorst
 
justalurker66 wrote:I'm not sure I want to know about lapses in security at the borders ... the article did say that she was petite, so she would be easy to miss - but there are a lot of other small things that we don't want to miss coming over the border. Someone should have seen her ... and that someone is probably going to join the ranks of the unemployed, if they have not already.

Some of them round openings on the ends of them ACF Hoppers have just enough room for a person to wedge them selves up in between the inside slope of the Hopper and that end plate I've head about this being one spot for people to hide. I've also seen people get right up and into Auto Racks they were often easy to spot at night if you sat by the tracks with no lights on as the train passes just look for dome lights that are on in the auto's.
 #980065  by Desertdweller
 
Yes. The "professional hobos" know to ride in the openings in the rear of the cylinder hoppers.

The dimmer-minded ones will ride in open gondolas, where they may get jostled around, be exposed to the weather, and may have difficulty getting back out of the car.

I would strongly suggest that no one try to hop a ride on a freight train.

Les
 #980271  by Ken W2KB
 
Note that from time to time, people have climbing into the wheel wells of retractable landing gear large aircraft. Desperate or determined people will try most anything.
 #980316  by Gadfly
 
Ken W2KB wrote:Note that from time to time, people have climbing into the wheel wells of retractable landing gear large aircraft. Desperate or determined people will try most anything.
That happened recently in Charlotte, NC! They found a young boy who had apparently fallen out of the wheel well near Boston (I think) and fell to his death(?) They determined, according to the investigation, he was dead before it happened due to hypothermia! Heads did roll when Homeland Security got involved, because there was to be no way for some one to get out on the tarmac that way!

FJ
 #980417  by scharnhorst
 
Gadfly wrote:
Ken W2KB wrote:Note that from time to time, people have climbing into the wheel wells of retractable landing gear large aircraft. Desperate or determined people will try most anything.
That happened recently in Charlotte, NC! They found a young boy who had apparently fallen out of the wheel well near Boston (I think) and fell to his death(?) They determined, according to the investigation, he was dead before it happened due to hypothermia! Heads did roll when Homeland Security got involved, because there was to be no way for some one to get out on the tarmac that way!

FJ

gos to show how much of a joke the TSA is they seem to hire out a lot of stupid people that have no idea of what there supposed to do. If you want a country that takes Paranoia to the Extreme go to Poland they are vary trigger happy there in there airport security protocols! I try to avoid changing planes or transferring from one train to another there if I can help it.
 #985423  by Robert Paniagua
 
They need to improve rail border security for freght trains to/from Canada, just like they are doing for Amtrak's Trains already. Otherwise, those who arent supposed to be here will be able to sneak into the country. I just hope that US ICE officers are checking under, above and around each and every freight car and engine to be sure noone is stowing -away on these trains even Amtraks too, heck, when I was riding on both trains from New York Penn (Adirondack and Maple Leaf) they were a few stoaways under the trains I was in and a surfer at the back end door of our Maple Leaf Train in 2004 from the Niagara Falls Canadian side trainsurfing across the border to the US side
 #985434  by scharnhorst
 
Robert Paniagua wrote:They need to improve rail border security for freght trains to/from Canada, just like they are doing for Amtrak's Trains already. Otherwise, those who arent supposed to be here will be able to sneak into the country. I just hope that US ICE officers are checking under, above and around each and every freight car and engine to be sure noone is stowing -away on these trains even Amtraks too, heck, when I was riding on both trains from New York Penn (Adirondack and Maple Leaf) they were a few stoaways under the trains I was in and a surfer at the back end door of our Maple Leaf Train in 2004 from the Niagara Falls Canadian side trainsurfing across the border to the US side
you'll find that the boarder agents are spread way to thin as it is. My Brother has been on the waiting list for almost 2 years now which is about the time when he got out of the service. He was told that Homeland security is broke and dose not have enough money to train and put more agents on the boarders. He passed everything and as it is its been a long wait all he has to do is take the drug test then he go's in for basic training and a few classes I think??