• Cross Harbor Tunnel (PATH / NYCT/Freight) Staten Island - Brooklyn

  • This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by railtrailbiker
NYCEDC has completed the preparation of a Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS) for the Cross Harbor Freight Movement Project. <http://www.crossharborstudy.com/hearings.htm> PUBLIC HEARINGS ON THE DEIS NYCEDC will conduct six public hearings to gather comments on the Draft Environmental Impact Statement (DEIS). The six meetings will be held at the following locations within the New York/New Jersey metropolitan area: [Snip] JUNE Tuesday, June 8, 2004 City Hall of Jersey City 280 Grove Street Jersey City, NJ 07302 4:00 pm - 8:00 pm Monday, June 14, 2004 Bayonne City Hall 630 Avenue (c) Bayonne, NJ 07002 4:00 pm - 8:00 pm [Snip] The public will be able to present oral and written comments at the hearings and can register in advance to speak by calling the project information line at 1-877-XHAR EIS (942-7347), or emailing the project team at [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>. In-person registration to speak and present oral comments will begin at the meeting start time and end one half-hour before the meeting end time. All registered speakers will be heard. Persons desiring assistance for the hearing impaired at a selected meeting should call 1-877-XHAR EIS (942-7347) between 9:00 am and 5:00 pm, 48 hours in advance of the meeting date.
  by njrail3963
On a related note there was a barge yesterday around 11:00 that went up the Hudson with 5+ boxcars (mostly letterd Southern/NS, I was on the NJ side and it looked like there was another set next to the ones that I could see) being towed by a greenish/blue tugboat. It was heading north past the WFC. Anybody know what gives?

  by JLo
According to this week's TSTC bulletin, Menendez and Nadler are on the TEA committee, which bodes well for the X Harbor.


  by Sir Ray
What is also interesting (it may have been covered) is that former Jersey City Mayor Glen Cunningham (who passed away last month) was opposed to the Cross Habor tunnel, and planned to support a bill against it in the NJ Senate:

Now, I wonder if support for that bill has collapsed since Cunningham passed away?

  by Ken W2KB
If a sufficient Jersey City and Hudson County subcontractors are used for design and build, opposition will quickly melt.
  by badneighbor
In Newsday, March 7 there was an editiorial discussing the positivies in building this tunnel. This sounds like the same old song, and Mayor Bloomberg came out against it, but it seems he may not have the final say here.

I think this tunnel has to get done. I think this region needs this to try to do anything to improve the disaster that is traffic.

What I am asking about is, if this deal ever does get done, and the intermodal set-up works out... two giant 'if's... the transport of long freighters up from Bay Ridge to the Fresh Pond Yard, and then to points west at Maspeth, or east to Brentwood, not to mention transfer of cars to CPR, CSXT would seem to be a very lucrative opportunity.

With that said... is Anacostia & Pacific just running this outfit on baling wire and duct tape, barely keeping above water... so they can sell the operation out to a big carrier when it suddenly becomes lucrative? Are the owners interested in making this better now? Or are they waiting for the big payoff?

Once again, I know the employees can't comment.

http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/ny- ... 4554.story

  by jayrmli
A couple of points here...

Mayor Bloomberg came out against the project (after he initially was for it) because his probable mayoral contender, Fernando Ferer, is for it. Since there is a lot of NIMBYism going on in Queens relating to this project, he's pandering for votes. Plain and simple.

Intermodal to Brentwood might be more costly than you think. For intermodal to be successful, it must be quick and seamless service. Trying to run such a train via NYAR over high density passenger tracks for a relatively short distance to interchange with CSX or whoever and wherever this tunnel ends up, and then have to interchange it again, is probably not doable.

Where the bulk of the Cross Harbor tunnel business will be are regular freight cars from the south, heading to either Long Island or points east of the Hudson and lower New England, thereby avoiding the trip north to Selkirk.

Even though I'm an employee I don't mind posting. The chances of this project ever being built before I retire are slim to none in my opinion. It's only been talked about since the 1930's.


  by badneighbor
I think it may be political grandstanding, Pataki promised the world during his last campaign. I still haven't seen high profile freight out here. It is just too bad that NYAR can't add some new engines, and make the float bridge operational at Bay Ridge. Every little bit would help.

  by jayrmli
Don't even need new engines. Simply fix what you have. If they seriously repaired all of the engines, crews would be tripping over them.

I don't care how cheap the lease is they have on the LIRR engines. 156 has been down for 2+ years, doing nothing. At a "bargain" lease rate of $50 per day, that's $36,500+ down the tubes. Incredible.


  by BMT
Hey, badneighbor, from what European float companies have been using for years we could use here in the states: double deckered rail barges for added capacity so that additional float bridges aren't even necessary.

Sure you might need more motive power, but the answer to increased cross-harbor frieght is already here w/o the need for a new tunnel or additional float bridges.

NYCH's 50th Street float bridge ops can handle a double-deckered barge. Ideally, of course, the 65th floats would come in handier as far as NYA's own ops is concerned.

  by badneighbor
whatever works. i agree, it seems utterly foolish to have rebuildable engines laying around rusting to the rails. Since they already conform to LIRR requirements, it would make sense to re-hab. why won't they do it? does the managing compay ever send anyone to see firsthand their terrible conditions? just dont bring in 50+ year old clunkers and tell everyone there is new power in the yard.

  by Sir Ray
The tunnel structure will be two tubes 10m (33ft) external diameter to allow for 6.86m (22.5ft) overhead clearance for double stack containers or 3-level auto-cars plus possible electrification.
Wow - no wonder its so expensive (well, anything involving government and railroads in the Tri-State area is expensive, but this is even more so).
Admittedly a good idea to allow for expansion, but is double tunnel with (potential) electrification really necessary for this (or is there some unmentioned plan of using this for passenger rail also?)
I think a single track tunnel would be more than adequate for this...

  by BMT
Yes, I noticed that provision for 'possible electrification' also. That is really odd since, New York City related electric railroads are powered from the third rail (NYCT, LIRR and -- within city limits -- MetroNorth). My guess is that the provision for overhead power is aimed at New Jersey based motive-power that may use catenary wire ala NJ Transit. But then that would imply that NJT was going to come into Brooklyn. It's also possible that the overhead power consideration was nothing more than a muse.

  by CR6618
All this tunnel talk is being pushed by one guy, Jerry Nadler. He will disappear from the scene and it will lose steam. They'll use enhanced carfloat service or just keep using the Selkirk hurdle.

Previous political administrations pushed through the 65th Street Yard improvements (sitting unused) and the Oak Point Link (built with poor clearances for modern cars and it remains that way). Politicians move on and abandon their pet projects. Of course millions and millions of dollars were spent, but it isn't their money. So far about $20 million has been spent on the harbor tunnel planning process.

The pro-tunnel forces have done an excellent job of trying to hide the alternatives. When I inform a tunnel advocate that long freights travel over the Hell Gate daily, they can't believe it. I show them the cramped, traffic jammed Maspeth area and say this is where they want to stuff an intermodal yard. They immediately realize it's the wrong place for a yard.

There is one thing that the pro-tunnel forces have working in their favor. If you speak out against the tunnel at a meeting, they visit you at night and......................

Hours After Testifying, Bricks Shatter Activist’s Store Window
Queens Chronicle
June 10, 2004

Hours after testifying against the construction of the Cross Harbor Freight Tunnel at a contentious public hearing, four bricks were thrown through the window of a prominent Maspeth activist’s flower shop.

The vandalism occurred at about 1:40 a.m. on Tuesday morning at Enchanted Florist and Greenhouse on Grand Avenue. The shop is owned and operated by Tony Nunziato, a well-known figure in the western Queen community, who serves on Community Board 5 and Maspeth Town Hall.

He said the bricks shattered his front windows, setting off the store’s alarm and sending a signal to the police. The vandals escaped before authorities could arrive and no arrests have yet been made. Officials at the 104th Precinct did not return calls for comment about the investigation.

Nunziato, along with more than half a dozen community and business activists, testified on Monday at LaGuardia Community College in Long Island City about the tunnel’s potentially destructive impact on Maspeth.

The project’s supporters included, among others, dozens of union construction workers, some of whom booed vociferously when the Maspeth residents spoke. Nunziato, though, refused to speculate whether his testimony may have sparked retribution.

“I can’t make any assumptions,” Nunziato said as he awaited the delivery of several new window panes on Tuesday. “I believe in working with unions so I wouldn’t want to smear anyone.”

Nunziato, whose politically connected family—his cousin is City Councilman Eric Gioia—also owns Nunziato Florist on Roosevelt Avenue in Woodside, said this was the first act of vandalism on his Maspeth business in at least 15 years.

But, despite the property damage, Nunziato said he will not be intimidated into not speaking out against a project which he considers lethal to his neighborhood. “Nothing really scares me anymore,” he said.

©Queens Chronicle - Mid Edition 2004
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