Cross Harbor Tunnel (PATH / NYCT/Freight) Staten Island - Brooklyn

Hey, it's not such a bad idea to take a businesslike approach to this... it's a good way to determine actual potential volumes that a tunnel might offer, utilizing the PA's deep pockets to do some real marketing and sales work, with various loads and potential customers.

Interesting -- maybe they'll finally start using the 65th Street Yard carfloats after all these years!

http://panynj.com/AboutthePortAuthority ... hp?id=1151

Tom V wrote:

TOP OFFICIALS AND STAKEHOLDERS MEET TO LAUNCH PROJECT THAT WILL STUDY REGIONAL FREIGHT MOVEMENT ISSUES
Date: November 13, 2008
Press Release Number: 131-2008

Port Authority to Resume Environmental Impact Statement To Address Regional Freight Challenges

As one of the first steps toward addressing the current challenges with cross harbor freight movement, the Port Authority announced the acquisition and planned rehabilitation of the Jersey City, N.J.-based New York New Jersey Rail Corporation, which operates a rail float barge facility that transports cargo-filled rail cars between the two states. As part of the purchase, the agency assumed the existing lease for approximately 27 acres of land at Greenville Yard in Jersey City in connection with the rail float barge operation. The total acquisition cost is estimated at $16 million.

The rail freight barge allows rail cars to be put directly on a barge and floated across the harbor, docking at terminals at either 51st or 65th streets in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn, where connections are made with businesses either locally in Brooklyn or further east on Long Island. Rail cars also are transported back across the harbor to connect to the national rail freight network via the Greenville Yard in Jersey City. Currently, a majority of the cargo transported between the two states is moved by truck.

I've been looking at the STB website for information on this sale.
Does anyone know if the Port Authority has to get permission from the STB to purchase NYNJ Rail?

Joe

having floated 100's of 89' flats w/4 containers ( uswx20000 series) of msw in the late 90's from 65 st- (the 51 st approach was too sharp for 89'. we pulled thru the army base to 65 st-) i understood why volume years needed so many float bridges. the tides . you could only float 89' within 3 daylight hours. once the bridges were angled, you dragged the centers. shorter cars obviously increased the window but the sad truth is equipment utilization is poor. spring & fall neap tides, storms blowing water into the bay, weather uncertainties limits floating railcars to hi-value, non time-sensitive lading.
i've never understood why, other than railfans, anyone would seriously consider a hudson/east river freight tunnel . absent coal burning power stations on long island, how can the costs of such a tunnel be absorbed?

ken patrick+

i've never understood why, other than railfans, anyone would seriously consider a hudson/east river freight tunnel . absent coal burning power stations on long island, how can the costs of such a tunnel be absorbed?

I don't know, but 3-4 million people live out on the island and there is NO easy access for freight, and as owner of an RV with dual rear wheels, it is a real pain to access the rest of the country. Usually when the government starts to do something, there are $$$ as the motivation, or perhaps a union endorsement. Words from the Watergate days: "if you want to know what is really going on, follow the cash"... Ed

Otto Vondrak wrote:Eh... only 83 years too late!! The Port Authority was supposed to spearhead this project when they were chartered in 1925. They have done everything but.

Anyone notice this part? The acquisition of the New York New Jersey Regional Rail, the former New York Cross Harbor?

As one of the first steps toward addressing the current challenges with cross harbor freight movement, the Port Authority announced the acquisition and planned rehabilitation of the Jersey City, N.J.-based New York New Jersey Rail Corporation, which operates a rail float barge facility that transports cargo-filled rail cars between the two states. As part of the purchase, the agency assumed the existing lease for approximately 27 acres of land at Greenville Yard in Jersey City in connection with the rail float barge operation. The total acquisition cost is estimated at $16 million.

NYNJ acquired the NYCH property in 2006: http://www.rrb.gov/blaw/bcd/bcd08-32.asp

NE2 wrote:NYNJ acquired the NYCH property in 2006

I don't think that fact was in dispute... ?

The point of the Cross Harbor freight tunnel would be to remove trucks from the George Washington and the Verranzano bridges, they would be able to eliminate thousands of trucks from two of the City's most congested roadways. This is part of the same strategy that led to the rehabilitation of the Arthur Kill Lift bridge and returning freight rail service to Staten Island, more and more containers are being moved into and out of Howland Hook as well as garbage from the transfer station on STaten Island on rail. Thus eliminating thousands of trucks.

The point of the Cross Harbor freight tunnel would be to remove trucks from the George Washington and the Verranzano bridges, they would be able to eliminate thousands of trucks

Hmmm.. because of its dual rear wheels, my RV costs $10 to cross the Throgs neck bridge. Dont know how much the GWB is, or how much an 18 wheeler pays, but that is a HUGH LOSS OF REVENUE for the Bridge and Tunnel Authority.. THEREFORE, it (RAIL TUNNEL) ain't a gonna happen!!!! You heard it here first, and now you know why.....btw, last number I heard was that 75 cents of the $3.50 toll went to the bridge, the rest went to the NYC mass transit system...(the toll fer a car is now $5) ..... NYC mass transit is billions in the hole, gonna raise subway fares again.. NO WAY that tunnel is going to be approved, forget about it. remember one of the Watergate lessons: "follow the cash" Ed

It has been about two years since I last drove my tractor-trailer into NYC, but back then the toll for the GWB was $35 (only collected going into the city).

bulk materials -railroads good, dry freight (containers) -railroads poor. cross harbor $8bil tunnel for railed 'freight'. madness. the hubs are in new jersey, the spokes are trucks. can anyone find 100 acres on long island for an intermodal terminal?can it compete with a 53' 22 ton container for $300 from new jersey to montauk?
i think not.
ken patrick

At a public discussion in Long Island City a few years ago, a Maspeth business owner spoke out against the tunnel. The audience was stocked with construction workers in full battle gear (hardhats, vests, tool belts, etc.). A requirement for speaking was that you had to state your name and neighborhood. Any speaker who was anti-tunnel was loudly booed and shouted at by the workers. That same night, the windows of the guy's Maspeth business were smashed by bricks.

Coincidence?

Oh, oh, I better cover MY windows for posting this!

KEN PATRICK wrote:bulk materials -railroads good, dry freight (containers) -railroads poor. cross harbor $8bil tunnel for railed 'freight'. madness. the hubs are in new jersey, the spokes are trucks. can anyone find 100 acres on long island for an intermodal terminal?can it compete with a 53' 22 ton container for $300 from new jersey to montauk?
i think not.

What about through traffic? Only rail crossing of the Hudson River is 150 miles north at Albany.

remember also, that the empty cars must go somewhere, long island is a dead end street. do RR's still hafta pay rent on cars on their line, if so , how much.?? What cargo would LI ship off the island, SAND? Even if Shoreham/Northport went from oil to coal, think of all the emptys waiting to be gotten rid of. I still think it won't happen because of the loss of truck tolls on the bridges, but don't misunderstand me, I think a RR tunnel would be the greatest thing since pop corn, but .............. forget it. Elsie Kay

EdM wrote:remember also, that the empty cars must go somewhere, long island is a dead end street.

Do trains have to stay on Long Island? If they come through the tunnel, can't they head up to Fresh Pond, up over the Hell Gate, and into New England?