• CR on the Southern Secondary

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

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  by Bracdude181
 
Green Plate E boxcar behind the engine. Might mean something for Extech...
  by CSX4421
 
Anyone know where the train is right now?
  by Coast Line Railfan
 
CSX4421 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:52 pm Anyone know where the train is right now?
Should be around Maxwell Road in Tinton Falls.
  by Jersey Rail FIlmmakers
 
Hope Road at 5:02pm
  by Bracdude181
 
@MattJohnson The Southern cannot be completely abandoned due to its rail connections to NWS Earle and Joint Base McGuire-Dix. Conrail can stop operations if they want, but the line would need to be left useable incase one of these facilities needs rail service.

@RailsEast Interesting. My sources told me otherwise. Poly One ils still out there, but now it's some sort of electrical supply place.

@CoastLineRailfan *He* is not my only information source. While I do get some info from him, the rest comes from other friends, train crews, and former Conrail employees. Amongst North Jersey crews and many of my other info sources, the general consensus is that the North Jersey manager and NJTs restrictions are the reason for the decline of Sayreville and it's connecting lines. Very few people have told me otherwise. I will say this much, you might be right about Conrail jacking up prices to scare people away. I actually heard that's why they stopped bringing cars to Builders General in Toms River.

The restrictions are real though, and they are a problem. Woodhaven has frequently complained that they can't get their cars fully loaded, which means they lose out on about $20,000 of lumber on each car. The paper mill on the Amboy Secondary complains as well, because they can only get 12-14 paper rolls in the cars they get now. Plate F boxcars (depending on car length) can fit 24 rolls because the cars are tall enough for the rolls to be stacked on top of each other. This means less cars are needed to ship the same amount of product, which saves the customer money. Brick recycling was also upset when they were told they could no longer receive cars, as the rail siding is the whole reason they moved into that building which was once 84 Lumber. Now they have to use trucks, which is more expensive.

One thing I haven't exactly made clear is that there's only a weight limit between South Amboy and Red Bank, which is mainly due to the old bridges along this stretch. I'm pretty sure it's 263,000 pounds, compared to the national standard of 286,000 pounds. I've heard 1000 different answers as to wether or not the Raritan River Bridge has a weight limit, so I can't really say anything on that. If there is, then it won't be a problem in the future. A new bridge would have to be built to take 286,000 pound cars at least.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
@Coast Line Railfan
@RailsEast
So it's Jersey's government's hostile environment to businesses that drives away rail customers, not really Conrail itself? Who would've known. Also, what "pending sale" are you talking about? Do we have any legal documents/further information on that one? And who would buy it? And would they rehabilitate the Freehold connection?

Also, if the Navy and Army wanted any connection to the national rail system, they'd need to keep BANK and Colllingswood in tact.

@Bracdude181
The Raritan River Bridge is due to be replaced as part of Gateway, I've heard.

@CharlieL
I've seen that document before; the simple solution,in my opinion, would be to reconnect Freehold and Farmingdale.
  by Bracdude181
 
@CharlieL I found that a few months ago. It was a real eye opener. I wonder why that survey didn't take the Farmingdale to Freehold ROW into account. It also didn't take Red Bank to Bay Head into account. Personally, freight from South Amboy to Bay Head and back is something I wanna see.
  by Coast Line Railfan
 
JohnFromJersey wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:26 pm @Coast Line Railfan
@RailsEast
So it's Jersey's government's hostile environment to businesses that drives away rail customers, not really Conrail itself? Who would've known. Also, what "pending sale" are you talking about? Do we have any legal documents/further information on that one? And who would buy it? And would they rehabilitate the Freehold connection?

Also, if the Navy and Army wanted any connection to the national rail system, they'd need to keep BANK and Colllingswood in tact.

@Bracdude181
The Raritan River Bridge is due to be replaced as part of Gateway, I've heard.

@CharlieL
I've seen that document before; the simple solution,in my opinion, would be to reconnect Freehold and Farmingdale.
The *probable* pending sale to the C&D. I've been told not to release details, but under their plan the Farmingdale to Freehold RoW would be rehabilitated.
  by Bracdude181
 
@JohnFromJersey The pending sale thing is probably in reference to North Jerseys many failed attempts to sell this line. CoastLineRailfan has said before that Chesapeake and Delaware is going to take the Southern over. Conrail has attempted to sell the line to C&D, but any attempts are yet to be successful. There's also no documents anywhere on the STB's website about this, and I spent a while looking at Conrail documents on there trying to find anything about a sale. I can't say for sure what the future of this line holds, but hopefully it's a bright one.
  by OCtrainguy
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:38 pm Southbound at Newman Springs Rd 4:38 PM. CSX 6160 leading with 10 cars for Woodhaven.
I was in Red Bank until about 4:25 pm, so I missed them today and the lighting at that time , with the western clouds, wasn't good. I couldn't stay longer as I had places to go and be at.

I would've liked to have been able to photo the former Chessie System engine.
  by Bracdude181
 
@OCTrainguy I know how you feel. 6160 is one of my favorites.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
What's stonewalling C&D from buying the line from Conrail? Is it the price? Is it the NJT restrictions? Would they create any new yard houses? The old Gold's Lumber property in Farmingdale would make a nice area for an engine shop.
  by Bracdude181
 
@JohnFromJersey It's the price Conrail wants and the NJT restrictions. NJT owns Red Bank and there's a whole bunch of rules regarding what can be parked there and for how long. Therefore, any potential buyers would have to rebuild the Farmingdale to Freehold ROW and put a siding in somewhere for cars and engines to be stored. This adds 5-10 million to the price for the Southern. (Some customers wanted Conrail to pay for that part LOL) Also, the price for the Southern seems to fluctuate. I've heard of offers from anywhere between 18 to 30 million dollars. That's WAY too much for what your getting tbh. Only 2-3 customers, a track that's in horrible shape, railroad crossings that seem to work whenever they feel like it, no plate f cars, no cars with a gross weight that matches the national standard, (286,000 pounds) and almost no way to expand and find new customers due to NJT restrictions on what types of cars and commodities can come down. That's why nobody has taken this line over. All the potential is ruined by all the nonsense.
  by RailsEast
 
"@RailsEast Interesting. My sources told me otherwise. Poly One ils still out there, but now it's some sort of electrical supply place."

Bracdood, your many 'sources' are a product of your imagination. I have very personal, very inside info about Poly One and the subsequent tenant, Belfer Lighting. They were both my customers and I visited the plant regularly for the past 25 years. Poly One is no longer there, period. Belfer had no need for rail service at any time. Your pontification about the Southern, as if you were an actual authority on the line, is very often misleading.

And, yes, C&D was interested in the line but the pandemic has pushed everything back a year or more. Any Southern suitor has to deal with Conrail and also the NJ Department of Transportation (not New Jersey Transit) who actually owns the property before they go before the STB. And yes, the Navy base figures into the survival of the line to at least Farmingdale if Woodhaven were to bow out completely.

Chris
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