• CR on the Southern Secondary

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

  by R&DB
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:20 pm SA38 is taking over at Cross Street.

Very interestingly one of the crew members mentioned that C&D has purchased the Southern Secondary.

That doesn’t sound right though. Wouldn’t they need STB approval to do that and have to file with them? Plus, how does C&D have enough money to buy this line?
No STB filing as of (:35am 10/29/2021.
  by Tanker1497
 
Image
Image Conrail working on crossing, central and Railroad ave in Farmingdale. 11am
  by Bracdude181
 
@Tanker1497 I’ve noticed that sometimes they will come down the day after the train runs to check things out. The Central Ave crossing worked just fine last night though. Hopefully they look into the malfunctioning crossings in Lakewood. Three are completely non functional at the moment. (Cross Street, Route 88, County Line)
  by Bracdude181
 
@R&DB Yeah there’s no filing yet, but if C&D was to actually purchase the Southern Secondary would they need to file with the STB?

@Tanker1497 Forgot to mention. Yes Clayton bought the sand line at some point. From what I can understand Conrails attempts to sell this line have been futile because of the price they want for it. At least 17 million or something like that. Very few companies in the region are capable of spending that all in one go, and that’s only to buy the track. You’d still have to fix it, an endeavor that will cost far more than what they purchased the line for. It’s 23 miles of track that is so horribly rotten that the train barely stays on at many points along the track. That’s why many of the companies who have expressed interest in buying this line didn’t bother.
  by R&DB
 
Bracdude181 » Fri Oct 29, 2021 11:37 am
@R&DB Yeah there’s no filing yet, but if C&D was to actually purchase the Southern Secondary would they need to file with the STB?
Yes. Common carriers are required to file. But I don't think C&D are planning to purchase. CR is just hiring them to operate and make it useable. Same deal as they have with NS in North Jersey.
  by Bracdude181
 
@R&DB They wouldn’t be able to purchase it anyways. Not at the price Conrail would want. Thank you for the info.
  by NY&LB
 
I think this has been discussed before. ConRail does not own the Southern Secondary (or whatever you choose to call it). With the exception of the portioned owned by Clayton, I am pretty sure the rest From Red Bank to Winslow is owned by the NJ Dept of Transportation.
  by Bracdude181
 
@NY&LB Maybe, but when NJT was formed the NJDOT gave them ownership of all the lines they owned at the time so wouldn’t this be under NJT then? Wouldn’t C&D have to buy from them? If so there’s no way they’d sell it. They’d need to hold onto it indefinitely for their MOM project which is also on hold indefinitely LOL.
  by CR7876
 
NJDOT/ NJ Transit owns from Red Bank to MP 63.0 Conrail from MP 63 to MP 66, Clayton from MP 66 to MP 79.0, NJDOT from MP 79.0 to Winslow Jct, SRNJ from Winslow to Vineland, CR again in Vineland and W&W from Vineland to Bridgeton.

As its been stated before, by many, Conrail can't sell what they don't own. They can, however, lease it. As such, I don't think this is the correct forum to make those figures public. Where " $17 Million" came from I'm not sure, but that is just simply not true.

It is possible that NJT/CR/C&D have come to an agreement in principle, but a STB filing is not completed at the moment. Until then, and it is completed, nothing changes. It's also possible that the crewmember of SA38 lurks here and wants to see how far his/her "info" goes.
  by R&DB
 
NJT under NJDOT owns all the track below the Raritan River with the except of Clayton and maybe a few private sidings.
All of the railroad companies in this area are designated contractors to the state to haul freight.
  by Bracdude181
 
@CR7876 17 Million or around that figure is what I’ve heard most often. From several others I’ve also heard that figure to be much higher (30 million plus) and much lower. (8 million ish)

@R&DB So basically C&D will become the new contractor to run the line? Does that mean someone else could also go after such contract? Cause if so that has me wondering if C&D will go through all this trouble only to have someone show up at the last minute and a battle for this line ensues. THAT would be entertaining!
  by CR7876
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 4:30 pm @CR7876 17 Million or around that figure is what I’ve heard most often. From several others I’ve also heard that figure to be much higher (30 million plus) and much lower. (8 million ish)

@R&DB So basically C&D will become the new contractor to run the line? Does that mean someone else could also go after such contract? Cause if so that has me wondering if C&D will go through all this trouble only to have someone show up at the last minute and a battle for this line ensues. THAT would be entertaining!
Explain to me how Conrail could sell something they don't own? Or are you saying they want to get that much money over a set period of time for a lease? I'm confused.
  by Bracdude181
 
@CR7876 I was saying that’s how much I was hearing they wanted to sell it for, but that was before I found out that Conrail doesn’t own this so they can’t sell it. Should’ve worded that one post better. My bad.
  by RailsEast
 
As Mark Twain once said, "Don't ever let the truth get in the way of a good story".
:(
  by CharlieL
 
Somewhere on this thread (back in the 400s - 500s) it was pointed out that NJDOT/NJT entered into agreement with Conrail for irrevocable/transferable rights for Conrail to conduct freight operations on the Southern and presumably the Amboy/FIT as well. I am presuming that is correct as shown by the grant request and from other comments from people with more knowledge than I have, that transfer of rights is in the works. That does not make it all a done deal. C&D could look at the economic uncertainties and decide to walk. I suspect Conrail would be happy to wash its hands of it (I have nothing to back that up). One thing I do not understand is the antipathy one or more members seem to have to a takeover by C&D. No reason I could discern from the comments seem to justify that.
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