• CR on the Southern Secondary

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

  by Bracdude181
 
@R&DB This place in Lakewood is HUGE.
Not sure why they would buy it if they weren’t gonna be moving a large amount of product.
  by R&DB
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:51 am @R&DB This place in Lakewood is HUGE.
Not sure why they would buy it if they weren’t gonna be moving a large amount of product.
Until present day they sell to retailers. Truckloads not traincar loads. I can see them getting incoming material by rail, but ot outgoing. Although I may be wrong and they have some new large wholesale contracts.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
R&DB wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:14 am
Bracdude181 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:51 am @R&DB This place in Lakewood is HUGE.
Not sure why they would buy it if they weren’t gonna be moving a large amount of product.
Until present day they sell to retailers. Truckloads not traincar loads. I can see them getting incoming material by rail, but ot outgoing. Although I may be wrong and they have some new large wholesale contracts.
Another potential operator on the line is always good news. If they do start getting service, how much could we estimate they receive/send out a week via rail? I'd imagine it would be very similar to Extech.
  by R&DB
 
John wrote:
Another potential operator on the line is always good news. If they do start getting service, how much could we estimate they receive/send out a week via rail? I'd imagine it would be very similar to Extech.
Extech is a retailer. Cambridge is a manufacturer and would probably be getting a lot more traffic.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
R&DB wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:43 am John wrote:
Another potential operator on the line is always good news. If they do start getting service, how much could we estimate they receive/send out a week via rail? I'd imagine it would be very similar to Extech.
Extech is a retailer. Cambridge is a manufacturer and would probably be getting a lot more traffic.
If that's the case, could they stick them onto the Woodhaven trains or would they need a separate train?
Maybe we can see the return of Tuesday trains :-D
  by GSC
 
The old siding / interchange track to the ex-PRR at Farmingdale / Gold's Lumber is still there, that could be used for transloading from the tank cars, without dealing with the 33/34 highway situation. Open and mostly away from civilization (a few blocks away, anyway). I read somewhere that the area of Gold's was in Howell and not in Farmingdale which could open up permission to transload there. Just a thought.

Any SA-31 news for today?
  by R&DB
 
The track by the former Golds is the border between F'dale and Howell. Not sure which town the tracks are actually in at Southard Ave, but as soon as they curve it's Farmingdale.
Last edited by R&DB on Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by Bracdude181
 
@GSC We won’t know if they are coming until they call in to Coast Line Dispatch or unless someone sees it coming. (Provided they run today)

@JohnfromJersey Conrail is completely unwilling to run more than once a week on the Southern Secondary provided they are given the choice to do so.

I’ve even heard that if the sand trains ever run they were only willing to exchange with Seashore Lines only once a week.

Meanwhile in South Jersey, Conrail will run to Seashore Lines at the drop of a hat just to move cars to and from storage or just to drop off passenger cars. Granted it’s not that often, but Conrail brings that train when they want it. (Provided it gets to Camden)

Up here?

“Oh, we can’t bring your train down because (insert “reason” here)” among other things.

Woodhaven is one of the customers that was most affected by the service cuts. Once they started getting bigger they needed larger trains, trains that were bigger than the 8 car siding they had. So they went up to Conrail (who at the time was only running on the Southern once a week) and said:

“We are expanding and need to mover more product, so we will need two trains a week”

Conrails response?

“NOPE!”

So Woodhaven was forced to spend $500,000 of their own money to build a second siding to increase the capacity at their site. All so Conrail didn’t have to bring a second train down! Seeing as how Lakewood was beginning to rapidly expand at the time and houses were going up everywhere at a fast pace, trucking all that lumber in would be far too expensive. Remember that one rail car holds the same amount of cargo as four trucks. Imagine paying for the fuel, the drivers, the insurance, truck repairs, etc on top of everything else!

Meanwhile C&D (and seemingly most NJ Shortlines) will bring it no questions asked. No arguments, no problems, nothing. The customers want it, so they get it. The service that they provide is why there’s more shortlines and regional railroads nowadays. Most of the big railroads just can’t be bothered anymore. Some give better service to Wall Street than they do to their customers!
  by RailsEast
 
"Any SA-31 news for today?"

Doesn't look like today, Garry. Hopefully tomorrow.
Chris
  by JohnFromJersey
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:36 pm
@JohnfromJersey Conrail is completely unwilling to run more than once a week on the Southern Secondary provided they are given the choice to do so.

I’ve even heard that if the sand trains ever run they were only willing to exchange with Seashore Lines only once a week.
Good thing Conrail won't be around much longer if that's the case.
Bracdude181 wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:36 pm
Woodhaven is one of the customers that was most affected by the service cuts. Once they started getting bigger they needed larger trains, trains that were bigger than the 8 car siding they had. So they went up to Conrail (who at the time was only running on the Southern once a week) and said:

“We are expanding and need to mover more product, so we will need two trains a week”

Conrails response?

“NOPE!”

So Woodhaven was forced to spend $500,000 of their own money to build a second siding to increase the capacity at their site. All so Conrail didn’t have to bring a second train down! Seeing as how Lakewood was beginning to rapidly expand at the time and houses were going up everywhere at a fast pace, trucking all that lumber in would be far too expensive. Remember that one rail car holds the same amount of cargo as four trucks. Imagine paying for the fuel, the drivers, the insurance, truck repairs, etc on top of everything else!

Meanwhile C&D (and seemingly most NJ Shortlines) will bring it no questions asked. No arguments, no problems, nothing. The customers want it, so they get it. The service that they provide is why there’s more shortlines and regional railroads nowadays. Most of the big railroads just can’t be bothered anymore. Some give better service to Wall Street than they do to their customers!
That is precision scheduled railroading for you. It will really start to cut into the Class I's profit margins soon, but not soon enough for them to make changes before its too late. Thankfully the Class I's will be out of the question on the SOUS and FIT before then.

I think Woodhaven could probably do two trains even with their extended siding. I think there's a decent chance we could see two, maybe three if the brick place is interested, trains a week very quickly after C&D takes over
  by JohnFromJersey
 
GSC wrote: Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:22 pm The old siding / interchange track to the ex-PRR at Farmingdale / Gold's Lumber is still there, that could be used for transloading from the tank cars, without dealing with the 33/34 highway situation. Open and mostly away from civilization (a few blocks away, anyway). I read somewhere that the area of Gold's was in Howell and not in Farmingdale which could open up permission to transload there. Just a thought.

Any SA-31 news for today?
That would be a rough spot to do transloading. Howell High School and Farmingdale Elementary are very close to the old site, and it's near a residential area; the locals would not be happy to have one of those so close to where they live, not to mention the trucks would be a nightmare on Main Street.
  by R&DB
 
#1582609 by JohnFromJersey
Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:51 pm
Howell High School is about a half mile away. Farmingdale Elementary is 2 blocks and hidden behind a huge warehouse. And then there is the question of what is to be transloaded. It is nothing highly explosive or toxic. It's ethanol (ethyl alchohol). The same thing as in achoholic beverages.Yes it burns, but not very explosive. The transloading would proably be done at night as it is being done now. Very low danger.

Regarding Cambridge, I don't foresee more than 5 cars a week IF they decide to use rail. 2 sand, 2aggregate and 1 cement.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
R&DB wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:49 am
#1582609 by JohnFromJersey
Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:51 pm
Howell High School is about a half mile away. Farmingdale Elementary is 2 blocks and hidden behind a huge warehouse. And then there is the question of what is to be transloaded. It is nothing highly explosive or toxic. It's ethanol (ethyl alchohol). The same thing as in achoholic beverages.Yes it burns, but not very explosive. The transloading would proably be done at night as it is being done now. Very low danger.

Regarding Cambridge, I don't foresee more than 5 cars a week IF they decide to use rail. 2 sand, 2aggregate and 1 cement.
Fair point. I was thinking ahead in the case that it does get used for transloading for tank cars, surely more transloading operations would come about; it's a massive space that could function as a small transloading yard. Depending on how often trains and trucks are in that case, the locals will probably be upset, given how they have reacted to other proposed warehouses in the area. Gold's could also become a lumber/supply retailer again (doubt it, with Woodhaven and especially Joseph Fazio nearby) or be built to some sort of warehouse too.

AFAIK, the warehouses by the tracks aren't in use, they are used for storage of trailers and what not by Sterns (I think). The one that has the trailers all around it used to be a factory and doesn't have much activity inside it.
Last edited by JohnFromJersey on Fri Oct 15, 2021 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
exdirtbiker wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:22 pm Image
When I tried looking up the same spot on Google Maps and Apple Maps, it showed Bel-Ray as still being there: https://imgur.com/a/gUWaqbi
Today I decided to go see for myself: https://imgur.com/a/gS4XnZZ

Bel-Ray is indeed gone, and looks like it has been gone for quite some time; overgrowth has sprung up in the former building area, and on exdirtbiker's picture, you can tell that the aerial image was taken sometime in the winter; severe lack of foliage. If that map image was recent there would be a plentiful amount of trees (outside evergreens) visible too.

Bel-Ray at this point has probably been gone for almost a year now. My friend seems to think it could potentially be a local brewery getting the ethanol now, but who knows.

I will say, Bel-Ray had some serious security at their site, and the strange long and narrow white building is still standing. Wonder what the future of the site holds!
  by Bracdude181
 
Looks like CSX 4451 replaced NS 5285 in Browns.

SA31 is at or near CP WILLIAM on the Amboy Secondary.
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