• CR on the Southern Secondary

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

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  by Bracdude181
 
@JohnFromJersey So far nothing. Although I was wondering if anyone had found out anything new about C&D. I’ve been researching them heavily since the grant thing was posted.
  by CR7876
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:59 am @JohnFromJersey So far nothing. Although I was wondering if anyone had found out anything new about C&D. I’ve been researching them heavily since the grant thing was posted.
Have you checked out their web site http://www.chesapeakeanddelaware.com/. They have sites on Facebook, Twitter, and Linkedin although they aren't very active on Social Media.
  by Bracdude181
 
@CR7876 I’ve gone through that whole website and all of their affiliate companies websites. I’ll be honest, their prices for service have me concerned. Many of their tariffs are higher than other rail companies in NJ. Couldn’t get carload rate info.

Maintenance seems okay and the service is better than Conrail, but those tariffs.....

I don’t know. I’ve got a bad feeling that those tariffs are gonna scare off the smaller people around here. Prestone in Freehold I know for sure won’t be happy because their infra-plant switching prices are gonna go up by thousands under C&D. (Conrail only charges $125 per car for switching last I heard) They also have exceptionally high standards for customer track standards, which could mean the end of cars to Builders General in Freehold as their tracks are in really bad shape and getting them up to C&Ds standards is definitely gonna be an expensive endeavor. What if they don’t bother...
  by R&DB
 
JohnFromJersey wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:24 pm I hate to be that guy... but has anyone heard about those fabled sand trains from Clayton at all???
Patience sir. The grant money for D&D doesn't start 'til July 1. There is no connection between Clayton's track and the national network. There are no announced customers for Clayton's product. No sales... no shipments.
  by CR7876
 
Bracdude181 wrote:@CR7876 I’ve gone through that whole website and all of their affiliate companies websites. I’ll be honest, their prices for service have me concerned. Many of their tariffs are higher than other rail companies in NJ. Couldn’t get carload rate info.

Maintenance seems okay and the service is better than Conrail, but those tariffs.....

I don’t know. I’ve got a bad feeling that those tariffs are gonna scare off the smaller people around here. Prestone in Freehold I know for sure won’t be happy because their infra-plant switching prices are gonna go up by thousands under C&D. (Conrail only charges $125 per car for switching last I heard) They also have exceptionally high standards for customer track standards, which could mean the end of cars to Builders General in Freehold as their tracks are in really bad shape and getting them up to C&Ds standards is definitely gonna be an expensive endeavor. What if they don’t bother...
I'm not sure that $125 rate is correct. Conrail doesn't have any tariffs, but customers would fall in under NS or CSX tariffs. Last I heard Conrail charged $2000 for an Inter-plant switch. An Inter-plant switch is when you move a car from one track inside a customers siding to another, at the request of the customer. Last I knew, Prestone had one track for Tanks and another track for Hoppers. There shouldn't be many if any interplant switches.
  by pumpers
 
As an update, I drove under the Route 72 CNJ bridge yesterday for the first time in about a year. The construction (or cosmetic painting) mentioned a few months ago is done. No new graffiti on either side, except on the concrete base on left. My guess is that it was all cosmetic, as it appears that the spalling on the concrete column was not repaired, just painted over. JS
Image
The picture was when driving eastbound. The other side was basically the same coming back.
Here is the same view in 2018 from Google Maps.
Image
Bracdude181 wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:35 am Here’s some more pictures of what’s being done at the Route 72 bridge. There’s a sign on it that says NJ Transit now. The most recent pictures are towards the top
.....
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ypcT9cXHZBcV1nsb6
  by Bracdude181
 
@pumpers You see the NJT sign? Still don’t know what that’s about.
  by pumpers
 
From your pictures I think you would see the "NJ Transit" while driving westbound. My picture is the other way, and from your pictures the "NJ transit" was pretty small, so I might not have noticed while driving back. Also, from your pictures, it sort of looks like the "NJ Transit" was not painted on, but a piece of paper or similar which was already coming off, perhaps.
  by Ken W2KB
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:36 pm @pumpers You see the NJT sign? Still don’t know what that’s about.
It is my understanding that NJ Transit owns the line south of the Clayton Sand owned portion. Hence, the NJT bridge number.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
There are many NJT bridges, that are actually used, that needed a facelift FAR more than this bridge did. I know "TRUMP 2020" or something like that was written on the side of it, but that possibly can't be the reason they gave it a major facelift, right? Maybe they are considering selling south of Clayton to someone?
  by R&DB
 
I don't think I'd characterize it as a major facelift, just a repaint to cover the 'objectionable' graffiti.
  by R&DB
 
Ken W2KB wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:39 pm
Bracdude181 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:36 pm @pumpers You see the NJT sign? Still don’t know what that’s about.
It is my understanding that NJ Transit owns the line south of the Clayton Sand owned portion. Hence, the NJT bridge number.
The CNJ Southern Division (everything South of Perth Amboy) became Conrail property on April 1, 1975. The last trains to transit the full Southern were within a couple of years when Conrail abandoned Woodmansie to Winslow Jct. The property reverted to the NJ DoT. Clayton Sand purchased the Lakehurst to Woodmansie portion in the early '80s from the State. The stretch below Woodmansie is still State property, probably owned by DoT. Since the bridge in question still has tracks, it's probably administered by NJT.
  by Bracdude181
 
Clayton bought the Lakehurst-Woodmansie segment in summer 1985 I believe. The final train to go from Red Bank to Winslow was on March 15, 1981.

Does anyone know why the Winslow Jct to Woodmansie segment was taken out of service to begin with? Supposedly it was used as a back door to Camden yard during the final years, and old Conrail maps also suggest that a very small yard at Winslow existed briefly. No idea if it was ever used under CR but Amtrak stored stuff there in the 80s when they owned/operated the Atlantic City Line.
  by JohnFromJersey
 
Bracdude181 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:34 pm Clayton bought the Lakehurst-Woodmansie segment in summer 1985 I believe. The final train to go from Red Bank to Winslow was on March 15, 1981.

Does anyone know why the Winslow Jct to Woodmansie segment was taken out of service to begin with? Supposedly it was used as a back door to Camden yard during the final years, and old Conrail maps also suggest that a very small yard at Winslow existed briefly. No idea if it was ever used under CR but Amtrak stored stuff there in the 80s when they owned/operated the Atlantic City Line.
If Conrail motioned to abandon Winslow-Woodmansie, why were trains still running on it afterwards for a time/ It also seems to me that much of the industry in South Jersey dried up as highways took over and houses followed. It's also a redundant way to get from North-South since there are other lines in the Western part of the state that do the same
  by Bracdude181
 
@JohnFromJersey Not entirely how much was lost to housing and highways in South Jersey, especially seeing as how many more smaller customers and local trains they have compared to around here. The decision to close Winslow-Woodmansie doesn’t seem to have a clear reason behind it...

That redundancy you mentioned is actually a good reason to reopen the Winslow-Woodmansie segment but right now I can’t say if there’s demand for it. If it were to happen it would probably be best if it was all operated by one company. I’d say either Seashore Lines or Winchester and Western if it were up to me. That would pretty interesting!
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