Conrail at 31

Geez, I feel like a dinosaur, seems like April 1, 1976 was only a few years ago. Looking back in perspective I think Conrail was a transition between the decline and fall of the industry in the post WWII era and the new prosperity post 1980 Staggers Act. Seems like all through the 1960's - 1976 it was all bad news, decline, abandonments and train offs. For me I hated to see Conrail come and obliviate the EL and LV. PC was just one big black hole mess. In a sense March 31, 1976 was the end of the world and status quo was we knew it and the future of Conrail was dubious at best, especially into the winter of 1976-77 when just as it seemed things could not get worse they did. It was the D&H that seemed to be the bright hope and shinning star and those PA's and new GP-39-2's didn't hurt the eyes either !

How things have changed. Like who would ever have thought in 1976 DeWitt would close the hump or that in 2007 one could ride a passenger train from Utica to Thendara at up to 40mph and even behind an RS-3 ! while the Utica yard would be decimated and most of the LV mainline GONE in New York State.

NYSW in Utica with Alco C430's ? NO WAY - D&H taking over the Syracuse & Utica lines maybe but NYSW?? Were they even still operating?

My crystal ball fortold few of the strange twists that have happened.

What a long strange tr5ip the last 31 years have been and how vivid the memories of 3-31-76 and 4-1-76.

to add to the above, Conrail's passing was not necessary and should not
have happened. Unfortunately, under CSX things seem to me to be going
downhill again especially in New York State. I wish I was wrong about this
one but I don't think I am.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:to add to the above, Conrail's passing was not necessary and should not
have happened. Unfortunately, under CSX things seem to me to be going
downhill again especially in New York State. I wish I was wrong about this
one but I don't think I am.
Noel Weaver

What would have been neat, and what might have worked, IMO, is if Conrail had survived in a form, and the E-L remained intact. Supposing that in 1997 Conrail was what it was plus the entire E-L. Conrail could've survived but sold two of the Chicago-NYC routes- kept all else but sold off either the NYC, EL or Pennsy mains along that corridor. Competition achieved, Conrail intact.

Noel, your right. L Stanley had it right. " Let Conrail be Conrail"

What is probably little realized is how Conrail really had their act toghether in an engineering sense of standardized plans that were excellent. That probably helped alot in unifying the varied lines from the predecessor railroads.

It is amazing how they actually pulled it all out of the toilet and created a whole new railroad out of the abyss.

In response to Joe College

I would have liked to have seen your idea come true. I recall former EL men saying that there was a moritorium on CR tearing up former EL lines IF the whole CR concept failed. Whether there was truth in that I don't know, but they at least believed in such a scenario and were under the impression that perhaps EL might pull out of CR and gain independance if it failed. This was CA 1976 early 1977.

The economics and state of the industry was way bigger than CR and I suspect that as much as Stanley Crane and David Levan fought for an independent CR that there was no way for it to happen in the long run.

Time marches on for good or bad.

You guys should all read Rush Loving's The Men Who Loved Trains. Then you will very clearly understand what happened to railroading in the northeastern US in the last fifty years. The real villains are clearly identified. Among them you will find the Pigtail(aka Pennsylvania RR) and CSX. L. Stanley Crane does deserve high marks. So do a few others, including Perlman, but that's about it.

Noel Weaver wrote:to add to the above, Conrail's passing was not necessary and should not
have happened. Unfortunately, under CSX things seem to me to be going
downhill again especially in New York State. I wish I was wrong about this
one but I don't think I am.
Noel Weaver

Tell you what, the Boston & Albany has definitely changed since CSX! No where near the volume or ontimes of intermodal, especially pigs and doublestacks. Mass Central's loss of K-Line realy hit the Palmer area, where TV-6 used to make some huge drops. during the day. Trains like TV-100, TV-99, TV-10B, TV-24........just a few I can think of no longer having their own decicated moves. The latter two used to be ones that fans looked for. Got a couple WC units on "10B" one day! Several of the mainfests have seemed shorter on average as well. One that comes to mind is SEFR/Q436. Times change I guess, but Selkirk is still busy!

Tell you what, the Boston & Albany has definitely changed since CSX! No where near the volume or ontimes of intermodal, especially pigs and doublestacks. Mass Central's loss of K-Line realy hit the Palmer area, where TV-6 used to make some huge drops. during the day. Trains like TV-100, TV-99, TV-10B, TV-24........just a few I can think of no longer having their own decicated moves. The latter two used to be ones that fans looked for. Got a couple WC units on "10B" one day! Several of the mainfests have seemed shorter on average as well. One that comes to mind is SEFR/Q436. Times change I guess, but Selkirk is still busy!

Some of the traffic changes on the B&A are due to a rejuvenation of PAR's District 4 with an upsurge in NS/CP interchange traffic (a daily pair of manifests, a daily pair of intermodals, and a few unit coal trains/week) plus a pair of CSX interchange trains via Rotterdam Jct. Competition is a good thing for shippers!

If you really have hole in your heart for Conrail go here and get yourself a nice dress shirt or some "drinkwear"

http://www.conrailstore.com/

Conrail did what it was supposed to do, and did it better than anyone else could've.

While we may fault "Big Blue" for tearing up our favorite pre 4/1/76 mainline, the management of Conrail was handed a mess on C-day, and a mere 10 years later, they created a fit, trim, and stable powerhouse of a railroad.

The western roads tried to merge successful properties, and they had service meltdowns.

Conrail was run by professionals, both in management and labor. Conrail was a great business and great employer. They turned 4/1/76 wreckage into a cash machine. Not an easy feat to pull off, but they did it; and did it well.

While New York lost many branchlines under CR, the mainlines faired rather well under CR, and now NS and CSX. Hindsight being 20/20, Conrail made the right decisions for New York State.

Conrail did what most thought was impossible. They deserve the praise.

The EL had its chance to remain independent, and threw in the towel in the 11th hour. Had they remained intact things would probably be different today (more so out West than in NY state). But by now NS, Chessie or someone else would have gobbled them up. (Santa Fe did look into buying the EL outright in 1974).

EL didn't look back on C-day. It became a non-RR corporation, liquidated all the remaining assets, paid off the principle of almost all of the bond holders and quietly went off into history in 1994. There was no "contingency plan" to become a RR again.

There is one thing that some of you seem to overlook or do not know
about on here and that is Conrail did not tear up any lines upon their
takeover in 1976. The lines that Conrail did not take possession of in
1976 remained with their estates (Penn Central, Erie Lackawanna etc) and
the estates were responsible for either selling off as a railroad or
contracting to take up the tracks and related stuff for reuse or scrap.
There were also provisions for states or others to buy or operate lines
that Conrail did not take possession of and this happened in some cases
too.
There were various passenger lines that had little freight on them and
these were also not transferred to Conrail and for the most part were
purchased by state commuter railroads directly from the estates, again
both the Erie Lackawanna and Penn Central were involved in this too.
Noel Weaver

There was quite a few lines in Michigan with the same fate - Ann Arbor was always indirectly controlled by PRR (typically by PRR subsidiary Wabash or DT&I) but was not absorbed by Conrail, as AA was always on the rocks. I also suspect Conrail didn't want a thing to do with railroad carferries like AA operated. Conrail also didn't take PRR's Grand Rapids & Indiana, at lease up north. It was turned over to Michigan Northern by the state, and was another marginal player trying to get by. They operated a 1910-era hand-fired car ferry - the Chief Wawatam. Both lines were state-adopted and went through quite a few owners before finding stability under TSBY and a few others. The state of Michigan was facing some financial hardships and ceased funding the ferries in the early 80's. I believe Annie boats stopped running in 1982, and the Chief quit in 1984. If you're interested, there's some great car ferry sites on the web, and one of the C&O boats still carries tourists in the summer.

See also:

http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19480

and

http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9303

It would be nice if we didn't speculate what could have been, but concentrate on what was...

now anyone have there ideas what Conrail would have been Like if it had been baught out by Santa Fe or Norfolk Southern when they first went up for Sale in the 80's? As Both Roads tryed to buy Conrail but failed to do so.