Commuter Rail Electrification

They don't want to pay Amtrak to use their catenary, and they want the entire fleet to be the same for the sake of fleet unification, can't blame them for it.

Electric locos don't get the acceleration benefits of multiple units though. CalTrain shaved 23 minutes off their San Francisco-San Jose locals when they went to EMUs.

Greater acceleration means we can add some more inner-city stops with minimal penalty, so commuters don't have to back haul (e.g. a Tufts stop on the Lowell Line, a Union Square stop on the Fitchburg line especially as a lot more buildings open up there, more trains stopping at Forest Hills, and so on)

Perhaps all changes make people worry. Perhaps worried about over-complex computerized equipment that fails. Maybe ask them instead of speculating. Perhaps worried that EMU trains with electric trainline doors will lead to rules changes and smaller crews. I don't know, I don't see the T laying off diesel mechanics other than in the Cabot bus yard. Although with the fiscal cliff looming in July anything can happen.

type 7 3704 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 11:58 am Electric locos don't get the acceleration benefits of multiple units though. CalTrain shaved 23 minutes off their San Francisco-San Jose locals when they went to EMUs.

NJT in reverse added time to New York-Trenton runs by using ALP46 push-pulls over Arrows.

typesix wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:20 amCab cars are not desirable in a grade crossing collision. I have read that some engineers also like to feel how the locomotive is responding to the controls.

True, cab cars aren't ideal when you have grade crossings.

jonnhrr wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 11:25 amThey would have to wire up yard tracks. Also the third track through TF Green and the Wickford platform track. I'm not sure if track 3 at Attleboro is wired yet. While they were at it they might as well wire up the Stoughton Branch.

All correct. And add substations. I would think/hope that there is enough clearance on the TF Green track for wire over the 19'00" ATR autoracks.

Big difference modifying modern day equipment for high voltage AC operation vs. low voltage DC as the BRB&L used. Essentially all they would have needed were controllers and trucks with traction motors. For the T a lot more equipment would be needed to be retrofitted to the existing cars. Would probably be cheaper to buy electric locos.

I have three thoughts:

1. With any phased approach, retire out the oldest coaches while buying EMUs and moving coaches to lines that haven't yet been electrified.
2. Use the electric locos for express runs, and do locals with new EMUs. Increased service levels will require additional equipment anyway.
3. The Old Colony Lines would be the last to electrify, if ever, and due to the single-track bottleneck and how they branch out into 3 branches., they don't fit into the general rule that applies to 90% of commuter rail operations: if you need 4 cars or less, consider DMUs, if you need more than 4, electrify. So there's at least a small amount of push-pull diesel equipment required.

type 7 3704 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 11:58 amElectric locos don't get the acceleration benefits of multiple units though. CalTrain shaved 23 minutes off their San Francisco-San Jose locals when they went to EMUs.

Comparing a screamer to modern EMUs is a bit of a apples to oranges comparison.

R36 Combine Coach wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 2:16 pmNJT in reverse added time to New York-Trenton runs by using ALP46 push-pulls over Arrows.

Part of NJT's problem is that they are only running with one loco, not two. I'm still trying to figure out in the NJT ML thread what will accelerate at what rate.

I suspect that a 12-car 12,720HP EMU set with all axles powered would accelerate faster to 50 or 60mph than a 15,000 HP pair of ALP-46As lugging 12 equivalent cars, with the ALP-46As being faster to get from 60 to 100mph, but I'm not positive I'm right on that.

Correct - and being able to switch to it without going all the way into North Station would be an improvement for some people coming in on the commuter rail.

You need to go all the way into North Station and then ride back out via the Green Line currently if you want to do it that way. Alternatively, you could transfer at West Medford to the 94 bus to get to Tufts, or transfer at Porter and take the 87 bus to get to Union Square, though neither are particularly frequent bus routes, and they add a transfer to a less reliable mode of service.

In either case they're significant destinations that sit directly on the commuter rail ROW, and merit a stop if it didn't mean a huge time penalty.

The other way to avoid a backhaul is to extend the GLX to West Medford and to Porter respectively, but that will cost a lot more money.

Cab cars are not desirable in a grade crossing collision. I have read that some engineers also like to feel how the locomotive is responding to the controls.

Honestly, I don't think there is any engineer out there who would tell you that they prefer sitting in a dinky cab car with a cramped cab over a locomotive with a spacious and comfortable cab.

Is the union opposed to electrification period, or is opposed to using EMUs, and conflating electrification with using EMUs (as opposed to replacing a F40PH with a ASC-64)?

If you are worried about cab cars and grade crossing, lead with a single level 1/2 bicycle car + 1/2 ADA seating + bathroom. Use electrically coupled brakes with ABS technology for faster brake performance . Can use AI technology (machine vision) to detect crossing incursions and automatically put trains into emergency braking when they are still further away from the crossing. And to issue tickets to folks who drive past gates. Of course some kid on a bicycle will get his jollies doing a loop in the crossing and forcing the train to stop!

How a cab car's interior is configured is irrelevant to the concerns an engineer in the cab would have about being in a collision.

I remember one grade crossing on the Fairmount Line a long long time ago. There aren't anymore left for what it's worth. It was Bird Street in Upham's Corner.