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  • Colorado Railcar DMU Status

  • Discussion about RDC's, "doodlebugs," gas-electrics, etc.
Discussion about RDC's, "doodlebugs," gas-electrics, etc.

 #477154  by DutchRailnut
 
Vermont Backs out of DMU deal:
eazy521 wrote:Vermont has backed out of the deal to use Colorado Railcar (CRC) DMUs after Amtrak and CRC failed to provide financial guarantees sought by the state. Here's the story:

Here's the story from the Rutland Herald:

http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs. ... 004/NEWS03

The best CRC could provide was a verbal guarantee that they would repurchase the cars at 90% of sale price after three years is Vermont no longer wanted them.

Eric

 #477184  by AgentSkelly
 
DutchRailnut wrote:Vermont Backs out of DMU deal:
eazy521 wrote:Vermont has backed out of the deal to use Colorado Railcar (CRC) DMUs after Amtrak and CRC failed to provide financial guarantees sought by the state. Here's the story:

Here's the story from the Rutland Herald:

http://www.rutlandherald.com/apps/pbcs. ... 004/NEWS03

The best CRC could provide was a verbal guarantee that they would repurchase the cars at 90% of sale price after three years is Vermont no longer wanted them.

Eric
Good catch Dutch.

Just for a record, there is a small part of me that does want to see the CRC succced to perhaps jumpstart rail car manufacturing again in the US.

But of course, most of the time I feel its just a glorified HyRail Bus.

 #477634  by wigwagfan
 
AgentSkelly wrote:Just for a record, there is a small part of me that does want to see the CRC succced to perhaps jumpstart rail car manufacturing again in the US.
TriMet still hasn't cancelled their order.

Given that TriMet designed the procurement so that only Colorado Railcar could bid and win, it would be a massive shock - and probably a huge failure on CRC's part that they can't keep business that is handed to them on a golden platter.

 #477646  by AgentSkelly
 
wigwagfan wrote:
AgentSkelly wrote:Just for a record, there is a small part of me that does want to see the CRC succced to perhaps jumpstart rail car manufacturing again in the US.
TriMet still hasn't cancelled their order.

Given that TriMet designed the procurement so that only Colorado Railcar could bid and win, it would be a massive shock - and probably a huge failure on CRC's part that they can't keep business that is handed to them on a golden platter.
Yeah...though it wouldn't surprise me if TriMet is going to invest in second hand equipment just as a backup. Might explain why there is a bunch of ex-Golden Pacific Railroad cars in Milwaukee randomly.

 #478932  by wigwagfan
 
AgentSkelly wrote:though it wouldn't surprise me if TriMet is going to invest in second hand equipment just as a backup. Might explain why there is a bunch of ex-Golden Pacific Railroad cars in Milwaukee randomly.
Not happening...

I spoke with TriMet's Commuter Rail Project Manager (before he retired from TriMet) - TriMet initially considered buying the Budd RDCs that ODOT owned (for the Lewis & Clark Explorer Train) but declined because it would cost too much to rebuild them and reliability would still be questionable. I was told that TriMet talked to the Trinity Railway Express folks which helped steer TriMet to their determination. (However TRE still runs Budd RDCs in daily service...?

The ODOT DMUs are now in Eastern Oregon. POTB owns two RDCs but only one is partially operable (only one functioning engine) and both are not in any condition to be put into semi-daily service. There are two ex-B&M/MBTA RDC-9s in Tigard owned by the Pacific Northwest Chapter NRHS but they lack cab controls and the engines (one per car, whereas a normal RDC has two per car) are non-functional.

The GPRR cars have nothing to do with TriMet; they were used on the steam engine excursions out of Tacoma. I don't believe they would meet any current regulations regarding non-tourist rail equipment, but if they could be made to work it would be interesting to see them in service. The problem with Beaverton-Wilsonville is that the line is literally built specifically for the DMUs (the station platforms). First of all, the station platforms are way too high for the bi-level door levels that are designed for low-level platforms. Secondly, the platforms are designed for a two car DMU train; at Tualatin, Tigard and Washington Square there would be a grade crossing/signal block conflict if two GPRR bi-levels had to be hauled by a locomotive.

However I do agree that TriMet will have some serious explaning to do should there be a major problem with the CRC cars that would put them out of service. RDCs would have to be found (probably from Trinity Railway Express, or VIA Rail) because there just isn't any other compatible equipment that exists in North America. It would make no sense to operate trains of a single locomotive and a single passenger car (assuming that TriMet could operate the DMUs in non-motored mode, or use the single trailer coach). TriMet couldn't run a longer train if it wanted to without building out each station platform; and that will be impossible to do at Beaverton TC (without building the track/platform on a bridge over Beaverton Creek) and Tualatin (it would involve encroaching on the front lawn of a historical house that is still used as a residence) - TriMet is having to go to GREAT lengths to satisfy the owners of that home, including building them a brand new driveway through the parking lot of the park-and-ride, and massive landscaping.

 #479335  by AgentSkelly
 
wigwagfan wrote:
AgentSkelly wrote:though it wouldn't surprise me if TriMet is going to invest in second hand equipment just as a backup. Might explain why there is a bunch of ex-Golden Pacific Railroad cars in Milwaukee randomly.
Not happening...

I spoke with TriMet's Commuter Rail Project Manager (before he retired from TriMet) - TriMet initially considered buying the Budd RDCs that ODOT owned (for the Lewis & Clark Explorer Train) but declined because it would cost too much to rebuild them and reliability would still be questionable. I was told that TriMet talked to the Trinity Railway Express folks which helped steer TriMet to their determination. (However TRE still runs Budd RDCs in daily service...?

The ODOT DMUs are now in Eastern Oregon. POTB owns two RDCs but only one is partially operable (only one functioning engine) and both are not in any condition to be put into semi-daily service. There are two ex-B&M/MBTA RDC-9s in Tigard owned by the Pacific Northwest Chapter NRHS but they lack cab controls and the engines (one per car, whereas a normal RDC has two per car) are non-functional.

The GPRR cars have nothing to do with TriMet; they were used on the steam engine excursions out of Tacoma. I don't believe they would meet any current regulations regarding non-tourist rail equipment, but if they could be made to work it would be interesting to see them in service. The problem with Beaverton-Wilsonville is that the line is literally built specifically for the DMUs (the station platforms). First of all, the station platforms are way too high for the bi-level door levels that are designed for low-level platforms. Secondly, the platforms are designed for a two car DMU train; at Tualatin, Tigard and Washington Square there would be a grade crossing/signal block conflict if two GPRR bi-levels had to be hauled by a locomotive.

However I do agree that TriMet will have some serious explaning to do should there be a major problem with the CRC cars that would put them out of service. RDCs would have to be found (probably from Trinity Railway Express, or VIA Rail) because there just isn't any other compatible equipment that exists in North America. It would make no sense to operate trains of a single locomotive and a single passenger car (assuming that TriMet could operate the DMUs in non-motored mode, or use the single trailer coach). TriMet couldn't run a longer train if it wanted to without building out each station platform; and that will be impossible to do at Beaverton TC (without building the track/platform on a bridge over Beaverton Creek) and Tualatin (it would involve encroaching on the front lawn of a historical house that is still used as a residence) - TriMet is having to go to GREAT lengths to satisfy the owners of that home, including building them a brand new driveway through the parking lot of the park-and-ride, and massive landscaping.
I keep forgetting about the special configuration of the Beaverton TC station. Thats a good point.

State of Vermont just put up a bunch of RDCs up for sale actaully, along with a certain Canadian outfit that has an entire yard of RDCs.

 #479792  by wigwagfan
 
Yeah, Industrial Rail.

Judging from their recent website updates, it appears that they are de-emphasizing their RDC rebuild. They have two un-rebuilt cars listed for sale with Ozark Mountain Railcar for a pretty hefty price, and the sale announcement notes that they are willing to rebuild for an additional cost.

From what I got from TriMet it appears they were familiar with this outfit, and I believe they are who rebuilt the TRE cars.

Unfortunately TriMet is painting themselves into a corner by creating a system that works only one way. TriMet isn't the NYCMTA that can put out an order for 400 subway cars and get multiple bids from companies who would love the business, even though the subway design can't be used anywhere else. TriMet's order with CRC is for FOUR cars - most companies wouldn't even both with TriMet's business. I'm sure Siemens would (since TriMet is a Siemens customer for LRVs) except that Siemens doesn't have a design that is compatible with TriMet's station design.

I do recall that Siemens did bring their "RegioSprinter" to Portland years ago, however the few cars that were built ended up on some regional line in Germany and the car never marketed again.
 #483341  by hemihead
 
The picture depciting an F40 locomotive coupled to the 7001 Coach car and 703 DMU was only for the sole purpose of having an operating cab controling from the South end. The locomotive has since been removed rand eplaced with a 2nd DMU after it arrived in South Florida, hence until such time the 2nd DMU arrived SFRTA needed another controling unit on th south end to operate.

Of note, not once has any of the three DMU's currently in operation ever failed, in comparison to the F40's (three failed times) and four failed times using the GP49's that SFRTA has in its fleet. All seven times the DMU's operated with either the F40's or GP49's in which they failed, the DMU consist either dragged them arround dead in tow or brought them back to the shop. With only one Detroit Diesel power plant it can pull; 1 DMU, 1 CR Coach car, three Bombardier cars and one GP49 at 40 MPH. Testing was ran in October in which all six cars were pulled. The F40's are polluting, noisy as heck, extremely fuel ineffeicient and require lots of maintenenance.

 #511804  by GOLDEN-ARM
 
For what it's worth, those DMU's are being "delayed" from delivery, due to problems with CRC. They seem to have run into a problem, paying their suppliers, therefore delaying production/delivery of those trainsets, which we will operate. There was a promise made, to have a single car delivered, around July/August, for crew familiarization trips. We don't care if they show, or not. We got concrete ties, and a welded rail mainline out of the deal....... :P

 #519995  by mxdata
 
I noticed that the latest "news" on their website was about two years old and wondered what was going on. That helps to explain it.

MX

 #520186  by Nasadowsk
 
CRC's like one of those punch clown toys. Everytime you think they're down and gone, they pop back up again...

Seriously, have they ever done anything that didn't nearly sink them financially?

 #523916  by heyitsme23
 
So are they really sinking? I hate the idea of using their dmu's on the new fastracks lines in denver to boulder and northeast, or on the proposed ranger express route in colorado. They don't look very well engineered, and their marketing claims of sustained speeds at 90 mph are laughable.

 #523929  by pablo
 
On the contrary, I don't think engineering is the problem with these folks. I think money and expectations are the problems.

Dave Becker
 #546652  by wigwagfan
 
DutchRailnut wrote:Tri-Mets Oregon is soon to recieve their first two Colorado Railcar DMU's.
Scheduled to arrive in the Portland area within the next few days.

Interestingly, the nose of the TriMet car looks considerably different than the SFRTA/TriRail version. The nose of the car is very reminisicent of Amtrak's RTG Turboliner:

Compare http://www.bcoolidge.com/pictures/RTG-T ... 4_74_w.jpg
with http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/9 ... 266744.jpg

Another thing to note is that TriMet will have three powered DMUs and one trailer coach. The schedule that TriMet has posted on their website will require three trains in operation simultaneously. The cars only have the nose on one end, and are "flat-faced" on the opposite end. I had questioned TriMet's choice to do this in a public meeting (why make the train look sleek - in only one direction - when the train has to operate bi-directionally?) but TriMet in their infinite wisdom wanted the trains to look sexy.
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